Civil society groups and Women, Family and Community Development Minister Datuk Seri Shahrizat Abdul Jalil have expressed their outrage following a report in Malaysia’s New Straits Times newspaper that the Terengganu Education Department has sent 66 schoolboys with ‘effeminate’ tendencies to a boot camp. The four-day camp, which started on Sunday, is said to comprise religious and motivational classes and physical activities.
In a report titled “Besut boot camp for 66 sissies”, the Times on Monday quoted education department director Razali Daud as saying that the camp, which is officially called a "self-development course", is being held to intervene before the boys “reach the point of no return.”
He said the boys aged between 13 and 17 were identified by their schoolteachers in Terengganu state as students who displayed 'effeminate' mannerisms. It is not clear what 'effeminate' mannerisms mean.
"We understand that some people end up as mak nyah (transvestite) or a homosexual, but we will do our best to limit the number," Razali was quoted as saying.
Meanwhile, Women, Family and Community Development Minister Shahrizat Abdul Jalil has declared the camp to be illegal and called for it to be abolished in a statement released on Tuesday, reported The Malaysian Insider.
“We believe that such ‘boot camps’ must be abolished on the basis that they are harmful and do not serve the best interest of the child, and are therefore in clear violation of the Child Act 2001.”
“Every child is entitled to protection and assistance in all circumstances without regard to distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, social origin or physical, mental or emotional disabilities or any other status,” added the minister, referring to the preamble of the Act.
“The experience of being singled out on the basis of perceived characteristics is an extremely traumatising experience, particularly for adolescent teens.” She was quoting as saying in the New Straits Times.
The education department has also come under fire for violating the basic tenets of the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) which Malaysia ratified in 1995. In a letter published by Malaysiakini.com on Tuesday, the Joint Action Group for Gender Equality (JAG), a coalition of seven women’s groups including Women's Aid Organisation (WAO) and Sisters in Islam (SIS), blasted the education department for “perpetuating restrictive gender stereotyping” which will ultimately be “detrimental to the development” of the children involved.
“Article 2 of the CRC dictates that all children should be accorded equal rights and treatment without exception, the Education Department of Besut is clearly in violation of this.
“Secondly, the role of education as entrenched in Article 29, is to nurture the personality and talents of the child and inculcate respect for human rights in preparation for responsible adulthood. However, the boys in this case have been denied and persecuted for the expression of their personalities and identities,” the letter read.
PT Foundation, a community-based organisation that provides HIV/AIDS and sexuality education and care services, said in a statement made available to Fridae that it disagrees with the education department’s stance that any ‘effeminate’ behaviour needs to be modified and that "if not corrected" may lead to homosexuality and transexuality.
“By forcing them [the boys] to change is to tell them that they are not acceptable as they are. As far as I am aware, no religions force such doctrines on their followers. These teenagers may become scarred for life and it will take many years of counseling and psychotherapy to be able to accept themselves as they are.” Said Acting Executive Director & Programme Director Raymond Tai.
The northern Malaysian state of Terengganu, which is governed by the ruling Barisan Nasional coalition after a short rule by the Islamic Party of Malaysia (PAS) from 1999 until 2004, is said to socially conservative. The PAS is however said to enjoy strong support from the state of Terengganu.
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Reader's Comments
The state of Terengganu is not under the Opposition but under the ruling govt, BN and its Chief Minister is Datuk Ahmad Said. Have you forgotten the 2008 Chief Minister appointment crisis between their Sultan who is the current King and the then Prime Minister?
Kelantan is still under PAS.
Racial profiling, Bible stamping, religious persecution and now sexuality profiling... me thinks some Govts in this world sign treaties or ratify conventions just to fill up pages of admin work but never translating it into actual walking the talk. And when they do decide to walk it, it's oft the dead end road.
Will 'experts' administer electric shock treatment and provide lobotomy at Camp Besut.
After the decision to evaluate students on the basis of their academic achievements ADDING NOW the level of their weight of flesh, the Camp Besut "manifesto' is getting closer and closer to young Malaysians being 'classified' in 'acceptable' and 'non-acceptable'.
German youth of the late 30's went through the same process !
Is a govt 'pure race' on the way ?
Stop right there, just before the comma. Dumb idiots who think they know everything.
Post 11, if you're talking about "cause of gayness", 150 years of research has produced no evidence to back your belief in nurture. Zero. (I discount the religiously motivated Narth posers of course, disproved and objected to by real scientists). On the other hand there is considerable evidence on the biological side.
shame to be Malaysian =.=
MALAYSIA/AFRICA.. whats the diff now?
hahaha
But yeah this is fucked :/
At least loads of people within the country expressed their disgust :(
Ohh society... *sigh
Seriously, its just wrong. How can u tell someone who is effeminate and 13 that they are gay? Im sick of hearing about Malaysia and its issues.
its rarely heard on gay couple family, isnt it?
well, thats why i hate school and always ended playing games on cyber cafe!
What have Najis done... Stench T.T
If they want boys to really toughen up they should send them to ballet school. More gruelling and demanding than any militaristic camp.
What if the kid says No?
What did the parents/guardians think? What if THEY said: "No, there is Nothing wrong with my son"?
Do the students get to choose the teachers that they think are homophobes, bigots or mysogynists, and have Them sent to a camp for 're-education'? Or can the parents nominate teachers that They think are 'wrong' and have Them sent somewhere for 'educating'?
There's a reason why Malaysian people are given refugee status in other countries - this is the kind of story that explains why.
Also, as an aside, as someone who makes newspapers for a living, shame on whatever Sub used the word 'sissies' in that story. Shame on them, and their casual ignorance.
Such treatment of these kids based on perception (ie. effeminate behaviour, etc.) is definitely not tasteful, no more so or less so than if was based on incontrovertible evidence of orientation (ie. the kids told them directly). However, given the rampant prejudice that exists amongst and often between gay, bi, and transgender people, do any of us really have a right to expect people that are not members of our community to perceive or treat us better than we treat our own?? How often do I read "straight-acting", "no femmes", "I expect a man to be a man", etc. amongst gay male profiles here on Fridae? So many of our community will be self-righteously appalled at this act of the system, but perpetuate such negative perceptions, classifications and differentiations through our own actions and inactions. How many of the people that post here are actively 'out' to family, friends, colleagues, etc.? How many welcome and support as friends and possible lovers as wide a sample of the gay/bi/trans population as possible? How many of us will publicly voice our disgust to the mainstream media? Of those that do, how many will do so under their own name?
I hate to say, but we are all guilty. Not just those that enact such programs, etc. Shame on you. Shame on me.
In retrospect, I increasingly question how much of my own identity as a gay man is a result of environmental factors and even 'choice'. For those that don't like the implications, I say your not making room for the possibility of nurture influencing or changing sexuality - if not for yourself, then for others - is just another form denial or even self-hatred.
We should be concerned with how we can all peacefully co-exist despite our differences, not be trying to eliminate them.
I think this stems from people's inability to control their own neighborhoods. They're afraid they'll eventually have gay pride parades running in front of their homes.
If we focussed on giving people local control, perhaps bigoted people would be happy with bigoted neighborhoods and not feel it necessary to impose their standards upon everyone else.
Even assuming that they are true, grouping 66 gay boys together in a boot camp is 3 short of a full blown orgy.
Puns aside, a sad development in Malaysia. Religion and so called "eastern" culture should not be a stumbling block to the evolution of society especially when one so gladly embrace the western world of "internet" and "Hollywood", at the same time trumpeting the 1Malaysia concept.
Suggesting that all of this is a choice is disappointing. I wonder when did these micro cephalic, denser-than-lead "leaders of a nation" decide to be straight? (assuming they ARE straight)
Malaysian Women’s Minister Opposes Antigay Camp
By Advocate.com Editors
KUALA LUMPUR maylasia | advocate.com
Malaysian women’s minister Shahrizat Abdul Jalil said that an antigay camp that seeks to teach 66 “feminine” Muslim schoolboys to be more masculine breaks the law and should be abolished.
The BBC reports that the minister said the four-day camp with religious and physical education, which seeks to discourage the boys, ages 13 to 17, from being gay, violates the Child Act that protects children without prejudice. Gay rights activists also have expressed outrage about the camp.
Officials in the conservative state of Terengganu said the students were invited but not forced to join the camp.
“State officials say that, if left unchecked, the students — aged between 13 and 17 — could end up gay or transsexual,” the network reported.
Effeminate should enjoy instead of hatred. The difficulty during the course at times will help boost up WILL & ..., no bullshit, i led boot camp life during schooling days lasted 2 years.
While PLU strives to gain rights, PLU should also learn their life lessons as how to cope with these embarrass situations which are so common in a gay growth life.
I love your assessment: "expected result: muscular, foul-mouthed gay/transsexual"
LOL! And we have many such gay men without the boot camp too!
just goes to show how STUPID the education department is if they think this can be changed! DF! DF! DF!
LMFAO
i think for them is paradise, since all are sissies...
If you'd like to discuss behavioral science with me, I'd be happy to share my 'subjective' opinions on research methodology to determine nurture/environmental causal links for any number of issues. The science is truly fascinating.
Regarding religiosity, I took no offense at your implication; instead I just noted your ignorance and let it pass. To help illuminate the facts (shall we use this word so we can all have some evidence in place), I was raised in a scientific, fact-based, atheistic, loving household. I am quite free of dogmatic thinking, but also quite open to religious thinking until such time that scientific evidence is able to prove otherwise. But I will thank you for trying to include me in your box of ignorant thinking regarding religion, fundamentalism and..ahem...science.
Finally, please note that I do not rant based on the generally defined meaning:
Verb:
To speak or write in an angry or violent manner; rave.
Noun:
1. Violent or extravagant speech or writing.
2. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence
However, to ignorant ears, a voice of reason often is heard as a rant.
- What message does it send out to the boys involved?
- What message does it send out to their parents, classmates, teachers, friends and family?
- What criteria is used, I have met a few ‘effeminate’ guys who are actually straight, just gentle decent people who are not as macho as many gay guys.
- Whose job is it to decide on this policy and then who pays those chosen to implement it? It cannot be in their job descriptions.
- Did the voters ever get a chance to decide how these officials spend the state cash & cash?
- Who works for who, and who answers to who?
- What are the benefits, and how are they measured? Highly suspect I imagine, although these 66 boys may actually find that they are not alone and become life long friends in this struggle ahead of them as they are labelled at such a young age.
Only 66? Sounds like the teachers were not trying that hard.
It makes me so angry as these messages form the opinion that we are all wrong and need to be corrected.
I have already booked go to Malaysia this year on holiday, or I would seriously have thought about not going. I certainly won’t be going anywhere near Terengganu.
I do worry about you, you know, you are looking so much paler these days, have you been feeling a little...queer?
i bet many reglious extremist in singapore would secretly hope they can have their own 'Boot camp for camp kids' in our very own backyard.
i am truely outraged that these homophobic are still instilling the idea to our kids that there is something wrong with you if you are homosexuals or different. yet we grow up to be doctors, lawyers, bankers, teachers, filial sons and daughters.
WTF do we still need to do to show them that we are just like everyone else??
JG in UK
Unfortunately, dear friend, when you are faced one-single party governing a country for some fifty four years -any country- its people just give up on initiatives, self-reliance, responsibilities and finally 'look up' at the 'paternalism' it is provided with and think 'it's alright', the govt is looking after us. Individualism has been replaced by 'sheep's behaviour'. Then the govt may do or try to do whatever it wants and it remains 'OK, it knows best', but for some few, happy few, for whom the daily sleeping pill and bullshit ain't working.
When parents cannot protect their own children -unlike in the animal kingdom- barbarians are at the door ! Let them not enter the kitchen.
1. The funny plot of seeing the boys doing physical command.
2. The rethoric of education department officers.
3. The struggling parents.
4. The obedient and ignorant parents (to the government).
5. The real gay kids (but in the closet).
6. The effemine kids (but not a gey, but in fact very straight).
7. The symphatetic deputy camp warden. (who is straight but was abused by his uncle when he was young).
8. The abusive camp warden (who himself is a closet gay).
9. The teachers who refused to identify the kids, but was reprimanded by the school head.
10. The kids was having fun in the camp. Enjoy new friendship and grow stronger together as they found there are so may of the same types togteher, now opportunity to bound tpgether to stand together.
Any taker? I am willing to invest! May not be Oscar bound, but may be a sell out in Malaysia and parts of the world! Furthermore making movie is not very expensive in Malaysia. We don need Hollywood budget. Less than USD300k will be sufficient.
Any screenwriter for a start? Any joint investors?
The film will be filled lots of "laughters" looking at the kids behavior, "angst" looking at the government (and officers), "sympathetic" looking at the parents, "courage" looking at the kids bound together! Recipe for success!
Serious? Drop me a line! Ha ha.
what the state education did was just a blatant disregard for human rights and i for once, supports dato shahrizat in this case. it can be traumatic for some of the boys attending the boot camp and most of the officers concerned themselves, may not be well trained to conduct it in the first place. really sad and hope it will not happened again.
Teacher points to a picture of a dick
Teacher: You all hate it. Say after me class....HAAAATE IT
Boys: Crick***
Teacher frustrated, shows another picture of a vagina
Teacher: You all must loov...
Boys: OUR EYES....Make it stop! ARGH
Or in short, it will be another mass orgy in a school setting. Boys and their uncontrolled hormones.
For all those who think that the parents should have some say as to whether their children should be indoctrinated further by religion, I'll ask you what sort of parent would voluntarily sacrifice the identity of their child and the ability of that child to think rationally for themselves ... The answer is a parent who couldnt give a fuck
Newton's third law of motion: To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction...
Where tolerance (at least), acceptance (at best) exist, there are no 'pigeon-holed' people...Everybody is entitled to sunshine. Specially children in their formative years.
The above was just fun....
Seriously I agree that this action is against the human rights of the kids and is discriminatory of perceived behaviour . If I was one of the parents I would look at possibilities of legal action on behalf of my child's rights and reputation at the government State level...against those stupid bigots abusing these children in this way. Any chance for a HRs group to take the authorities to an International Court or at least report Malaysia to the UNCCRs ?
Especially when Sharizat, one of the Minister has came out with her statement, which the action was obviously against the existing law, and why is the whole Malaysia bashed??
It just doesn't make you sound smart at all ;)
nice one,i lol-ed so loud xD
so funny "limit the number" come talk onli when u found the exact gene/etc tt cause ppl to like same gender....i bet in a hundred years u will find nthg.why?cos u dont have the rite mind to use resources correctly.btw,i think we all know msia not truly asia?lols....
All those of you bashing Malaysia....how idiotic YOU all sound.....that is like saying the whole of the USA is dumb just because of some dumb conservative right-wingers, who often come up with such similar ideas.
hahahaha....yah, it is fun to check "commenter profiles", for you might just discover that some who profess their desire for "one-liners", might yet just be inclined to write up a page and a half of sheer verbiage..hahaha....both in profile and comments....;) attractive indeed......a good laugh, I say...
And the same would post excessive educational qualifications on their profile, as if they were running to head some corporation, and yet would have the audacity to speak of "psaudo[sic] academic snobbery" - Yah, very profound and totally attractive ;) and someone I would fall head over heels over!
P.S. "Good" or "easy-going" certainly does not mean docile and not putting up a fight when maligned. Similarly, those who are vociferous, are not necessarily ill-mannered "verbose, venomous etc., etc., etc.". But those who are pretentious (such as the poseur immediately above), hateful (such as denseaus), and who would malign others and stir mischief would apropos qualify themselves as being presumptuous and uncouth, and we certainly are not lacking in those, seen from some of the comments above (#88 inclusive).
It follows that the Terengganu Education Dept is more interested in keeping up appearances, more than proscribing any form of alternate sexuality. Just as well; we all know how effective Education Depts are (not just in Malaysia, but worldwide) in eradicating homophobia.
I hear you and would tend to agree with some or even most of what you have said in this column.
You have however missed one important point. As human beings, having passed long ago (in relative time) the level of homo erectus to that of homo sapiens, we all share -obviously in this column- one thought in common: that children are sacred and should not be toy with, should not be 'disposed of' as voiceless individuals with no rights. Children slavery, abuse and torture, enroll in subversive
military activities, prostitution...are the norm rather than the exception in some parts of the world.
What has happened to these pseudo effeminate children has brought out some fierce reactions from all of us because, again,
they were singled out (whatever the reason is) and made an example of. They are defenseless children caught into a world that refuses to recognise their individualism, their differences (in any, in reality) based on some imbecile beliefs, retrograde thinking, by some individuals holding power to determine what they should be in order to fit some standards of Malaysian society as it stands now.
What is shocking in the decision to send them to an 'education' camp of sort is the fact that the idiots who made this decision have not experience in child sexuality ignoring the fact that children from 13 to 17 go to phases of sexual searching and development before such sexuality is set. It also failed to recognise that sexuality is part of all of us and should not be treated like a sore because some people is power believe it should be.
Children are sacred, and straight or gay not only recognise that
but in this column come in unison to defend them.
It is regrettable that some comments went beyond this specific subject and reach the 'Malaysia bashing' and the 'Muslim bashing'; it proves they were as irrational as sendind children to Besut Camp
based on some horrific selection which could prove damaging and life threatening to these children in the future and also sets a very bad and worrying example to and for others. And beyond the borders of Malaysia.
I hear you and would tend to agree with some or even most of what you have said in this column.
You have however missed one important point. As human beings, having passed long ago (in relative time) the level of homo erectus to that of homo sapiens, we all share -obviously in this column- one thought in common: that children are sacred and should not be toy with, should not be 'disposed of' as voiceless individuals with no rights. Children slavery, abuse and torture, enroll in subversive
military activities, prostitution...are the norm rather than the exception in some parts of the world.
What has happened to these pseudo effeminate children has brought out some fierce reactions from all of us because, again,
they were singled out (whatever the reason is) and made an example of. They are defenseless children caught into a world that refuses to recognise their individualism, their differences (in any, in reality) based on some imbecile beliefs, retrograde thinking, by some individuals holding power to determine what they should be in order to fit some standards of Malaysian society as it stands now.
What is shocking in the decision to send them to an 'education' camp of sort is the fact that the idiots who made this decision have not experience in child sexuality ignoring the fact that children from 13 to 17 go to phases of sexual searching and development before such sexuality is set. It also failed to recognise that sexuality is part of all of us and should not be treated like a sore because some people is power believe it should be.
Children are sacred, and straight or gay not only recognise that
but in this column come in unison to defend them.
It is regrettable that some comments went beyond this specific subject and reach the 'Malaysia bashing' and the 'Muslim bashing'; it proves they were as irrational as sendind children to Besut Camp
based on some horrific selection which could prove damaging and life threatening to these children in the future and also sets a very bad and worrying example to and for others. And beyond the borders of Malaysia.
by handing passively the 'problem' to the state.
Heartless, brainless parents should recognise that in such case the husband would do a favour to humanity by putting on a condom at all times.
by handing passively the 'problem' to the state.
Heartless, brainless parents should recognise that in such case the husband would do a favour to humanity by putting on a condom at all times.
Considering the point I make above, do you think your message is an effective way to combat elements of society that restrict freedoms related to sexual and gender identity? Do you think that gay, lesbian, bi and transgender people in that country would benefit from your comments if it leads to Fridae being blocked? My guess is you have no intention to cause difficulties or harm; rather you most likely wish for others to enjoy freedoms that you believe are innate. However, your perspective, which you are fully entitled to hold, when expressed in a public forum, may result in increased difficulties for the very same people that you probably hoped to help through your comments.
Let's all be aware of the atmosphere and try to show sufficient respect towards those in control. This goes for my comments as well. I need to be more considered in what and how I post.
Teachers at my school whether from a motivation based on homophobia or for their own sick amusement forced those of us boys who were deemed to be a" little different", or a bit too "soft" to participate in sports, and putting us in the front-line of fire on football fields etc with the roughest and hardest boys of the school, when it was obvious that we were certainly not suited to such activities. Needless to say most of us ended up as football fodder.
Of course then being percieved as weaker by the other boys, the bullying started.
All in the name of toughening us up, and making "men" out of us.
Result: shame, fear, at least one suicide, and who knows what long term effects.
My heart goes out to these kids.
When will society learn?
is Malaysia on same planet as Canada?
i remembered a PE teacher at my high school commenting about how "sissy" or "pondan" i am at kicking balls...well, for that i love licking them now rather than kicking them...lol...not an issue of any co-relation but we all can see how any type(s) of discouragement would affect a person...and God forbid! these are all 13 year olds...come on! it is their first year at junior high school.just let them be!!!...educators nowadays!!! we are lacking compassionate, sensitive, and dedicated teachers here in Malaysia...
the politics in Malaysia is laughable to say it kindly...so let me not go there...
Ex-Bully Dad Comes to Terms with His Princess Son
Posted by carolyncastiglia on March 24th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Partial article.
....The father's view:
"In his post, C.J.’s Dad recounts how he felt seeing his son playing Barbie for the first time. He says, “Instead of making the smart ass comment that immediately came to mind, I sat with C.J. on the floor…. The look he gave me as he held up Barbie for me to see was priceless and I will never forget it. His eyes lit up and a huge smile crossed his face.” C.J.’s Dad says he’s aware that if his son’s love of all things purple and pink continues, “he will be forced into uncomfortable situations and have to deal with bullies and taunts,” adding, “I am well aware of the adversities and obstacles (he) will face from bullies — because I used to be one. I fear that punishment for my past sins is going to have to be endured by my son…. I look back now and I am scared and embarrassed of how I would have treated a teammate like C.J.”
C.J.’s Dad seems to have made peace with having two sons who are vastly different. He says, “People have asked me if I treat C.J. differently than his brother…. No, I don’t treat my children any differently. They are into different things, so I get excited about their differences and unique behaviors…. I play baseball and basketball with my 7-year-old and sit on the floor and fumble my fingers putting dresses on dolls with my 4-year-old.” "
A great supportive father !
Dare I suggest that your nickname dense-aus is quite apt. Whoops!
The circle will only be broken long after religion loses it's hold in society. Malaysia regrettably is ruled by those who strongly embrace the principles of what is often an extremely intolerant religion. Australia is still subservient to the religious right although thankfully they are losing their grip. USA is one-eyed religious in its politics.
Once religion is widely recognised for what it is and dumped from the political spectrum it will still take years for the hatred taught by religion to slowly dissipate from the psyche of the population.. Dump religion and the world will be a better place. Not just for GLBTQ but for everyone.
Her - Well, that's a bit of a problem sir, because my son is planning to be married this summer and because his bride-to-be is heavy with child, we think 1) he doesn't have a problem and 2) he should marry as soon as possible. However, tell me, do you have a camp for de-butching? To be honest my daughter does tend to be more masculine than our son and maybe you can help her.
Him - Sorry madam, what do you mean?
Her - I mean my daughter acts more like a man than my son. Any suggestions.
Him - Sorry madam, we're only looking for effeminate boys and young men for our camp.
Her - Hmmm .... this seems like a strange camp.
Her - Well, that's a bit of a problem sir, because my son is planning to be married this summer and because his bride-to-be is heavy with child, we think 1) he doesn't have a problem and 2) he should marry as soon as possible. However, tell me, do you have a camp for de-butching? To be honest my daughter does tend to be more masculine than our son and maybe you can help her.
Him - Sorry madam, what do you mean?
Her - I mean my daughter acts more like a man than my son. Any suggestions.
Him - Sorry madam, we're only looking for effeminate boys and young men for our camp.
Her - Hmmm .... this seems like a strange camp.
Hear, hear !
Karl Marx, the German economist and Communist political philosopher wrote in Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, 1843:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."
On 'the U.S is one-eyed religion in its politics'
The First Amendment (Bill of Rights) declares that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The Fourteenth Amendment has rendered the legislatures of the states as incompetent as Congress to enact such laws.
In Everson v Board (330 US 1 [1947]) The Supreme Court wrote some powerful statements concerning the 1st Amendment:
"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State."
So even when a 'wall' between Church and State is to exist, religion still manages to creep through the cracks !
In other countries, where such 'separation of Church and State' does not exist ( 'laicite' as the French would put it) soon enough religion mingles with/in the affairs of the State and dictates people's believes, thinking and behaviour. Since the main religions emerged between 2000 and 1600 years ago or a bit later with a specific 'agenda' at the time it is no wonder that none applies to our century neither in thoughts nor in practical terms.
Unfortunately, some die-hard believers (note the word 'lie' in believe) are determined to have the people swallow the tribal beliefs of the past as if believing in Man alone was not sufficient. Closer to us, Confucius and Tao did not made a better job either as their pay check were issued by the Emperor to suppress any individual thinking which might challenge his authority.
Since all religions serve only to mentally enslave the people so others may reign feeding
ignorance and superstitions for the sole purpose of their own agenda, the sooner we all get rid off the longest circus on earth the better we shall be and the healthier we shall become.
"The Besut Camp is, unfortunately, not an isolated incident. IGLHRC noted that it has received credible reports of at least three other "curative" camps. According to Seksualiti Merdeka — a coalition of sexual rights activists and artists – Universiti Putra Malaysia and University Teknologi MARA, both in Selangor, forced their students into similar programs designed to "cure" gender and/or sexual non-conformity. IGLHRC is also aware of plans made in 2007 for the development of a rehabilitation center for mak nyah(transvestites) in Kuala Terengganu."
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