Fridae

Pleasant surprise...it'd be good if this respect for the gay community in future extends to allowing their film festivals and social events without unnecessary difficulty.

On Shanghailist: "Angry netizens have in return been tweeting anti-divorce Bible passages (eg. Luke 16:18) back at Sun Haiying and Lü Liping, calling the two an "adulterous pair". Sun is Lü's third husband, and Lü is Sun's second wife."

Wow...when was the last time a homophobic celebrity got publicly OWNED? ;))

It seemed to me that the host is merely making an assertive statement, rather than on behalf of the govt. That rest are just... sensationalised.

This is exactly why I'm an athiest...I don't have any of this religious bullshit clouding my decision making process. I know right from wrong without some book of fables written 2000 years ago.

Most of these people are hypocrites anyway. Say one thing and do another when no one is looking.

China is very smart to not allow religious lunatics to play any part in civil society. Right wing religious haters are a destructive force all across the world.

this is so typical of the fundentalist christian to condemn the homosexuals. they only have ONE BELIEVE that homosexual is a LIFESTYLE CHOICE hence they think it gives them the right to condemn the way we chose to live our lives.

I think they are more worried about the fundamental loonies than wanting to advance gay rights. I thought Chinese were intelligent, where does all this loony christianity come from. It's bad enough here. Half of the men are gay anyway. See you all at the sauna.

CCTV making some statement means nothing, especially when it's not due to pro-gay public pressure. It's really about "slamming" Christianity. Check out mainland Chinese public forums and find out what people think about this. Homophobia is rife there. Changes come from below. The Chinese government knows that too well, so on one hand state media makes seemingly tolerant comments from time to time, on the other hand the government cracks down on activities organised by the gay community.

By the way, I find the anti-religion comments here quite offensive. Respect religious freedom. Ordinary people adopt religious ideas not because they are "stupid". It has something to do with the way our society is run.

The evangelical group is highly organized, very active socially and politically to subvert secular social policies and independent moral values to their religious agenda. Their narrow mindedness, appalling, and religiosity, fanatical. This religious indoctrination is unfortunately gaining ground in many countries that have "opened up" and of the 3rd world , where the evangelicals are voraciously preaching.
Hope China will continue to strictly enforce the constitution and bring various religious groups in line.

Considering the large numbers of ordinary Catholic Chinese people who are jailed each year for daring to attempt to worship God at a non-state approved venue - many hundreds of ordinary people were arrested just this year at Easter at various 'house Masses', for example, with many Christians in China having plenty of time to consider the 'error' of their ways for attempting to worship God freely, with their sentence sending them to labour camps - it is Much more cynically likely that The Party is slapping down religion. After all, just as the Chinese government has no intention of giving a free voice to free religion in China, it has absolutely no intention of letting fundamentalists gain a foothold, either.

In 2010, there were tens of thousands of 'civil unrest' incidents recorded across China, with everything from entire villages and towns rioting against the police and local party officials to countless individual acts of rebellion from families and individuals.

The last thing China's government wants is to give any religious faith - or fundamentalist fervour - spurring on even more rebellion.

So, I would expect CCTV to condemn any more anti-gay, religiously-fuelled comments by well-known people, but merely as an extension of Party will, as I said above.

----------------------------

Incidentally, I agree with others, above, that the anti-religion sneering and mocking above is offensive, and juvenile. I am absolutely and completely an Atheist - but I respect Religion, and Faith. And, given the many people in China who are jailed and/or sent to labour/prison camps Every year simply for trying to FREELY practise what are some of the world's main, biggest religions - the religious orders here in Ireland, for example, Never stop publicly criticizing and blasting our Government's policies and actions, yet the Gardai (police) aren't sent to round them up - it's extra insensitive to mock faith.

It's easy to do so when there's no risk to You of being jailed for the freedom of expressing your thoughts and will - unlike the consequences forced upon many ordinary Chinese citizens, every year...

I am happy to tolerate religious groups and let and let live. But I have never bothered to stand up in front of a group of people and tell them that another person's beliefs or 'lifestyle choices' were contrary to the will of god and intrinsically evil. These people threw the first stone and should expect a few back. Pluralism involves tolerance. Disparaging others because your template for life says they should not exist deserves a punch in the head. Defending a bigots right to be a bigot is just a sophisticated way of saying 'I giving up'. CCTV may be machiavellian but the fundamental christians are a weird divisive sect. Don't confuse them with mainstream christians.

"Baby It's a new age,
You like my new craze
Let's get together
Maybe we can start a new phase"
from - Milow: Ayo Technology

this lady should update her sense of time and place in this world. a remark like this will not do justice to her acting career.

Vercoda, of course people should be free to practise their religion. That is a separate issue to this article. Live and let live, as bullst says.

The biggest threat to peace and freedom in the world these days is from religious fundamentalism of various types, and many secular governments are concerned about it. How to meet that threat while respecting people's religious beliefs is not an easy matter.

This woman was using her privileged position to support the denial of human rights to a group of people that she has been fed bullst about. Quite right that she was criticised for it.

Given the suffering that some religious beliefs and actions have caused, it's understandable that some of the victims become as mocking of the bullying religious types, as those types have been of other minorities. Tit for tat. Not great for dialogue though.

Is it correct that all religious beliefs need to be respected? The Jehova's Witness who was prosecuted over the death of her son because she refused him medical treatment? Cults that abuse their members sexually? Religions that involve child sacrifice in Africa and their members that carry it out in Europe?

Where in fact do you draw the line the line of respect, or is the ability to mock and disrespect the perceived craziness of a particular belief also an important freedom? Satire of religion has a long history, but now it's coming under threat.

There used to be a good Irish comedian on TV years ago called Dave Allen, all his jokes were about religion. I wonder if he would be allowed these days. Are we becoming unable to laugh at religion anymore, as we have been doing for hundreds of years, all the way back to the 13th century, Chaucer and "The Pardoner's Tale", which is certainly mocking and disrespectful of religion.

In fact even the Old Testament contains quite a lot of mocking, disrespect and horrific violence against other religions. Not very funny though. Except the bit about living in the stomach of a whale. And Methusalah. I suppose that old sarcastic song by Gershwin "It Aint Neccesarily So" counts as "mocking religion" too, these days.

For example, a couple of old Dave Allen clips satirising religion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo81Ok9Urk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGASvVqzOa0&feature=related

The Life of Brian was also good, funny religious satire too, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

Vercoda, I don't think you should read too much into the China-basher media of the West. Overseas Chinese people who follow the news closely see how sensationalized and demonizing the "free" press is to anything to do with China. The news is like the mouthpiece for various lobby groups. Make no doubt about it, one of the biggest lobbying groups is religious ones - hugely organized and well funded. One would think the cold war is not over when reading the news about China.
Vast majority of laws in China are progressive. Even laws re same sex relationships are quite progressive (but long way to go) compared to other developing countries, but changing societal attitudes is an entirely different matter.

egotist, you do not understand the significance of what the host declared so openly on national CCTV. He wouldn't have dared to openly endorsed homosexuality if he was not given prior consent from higher ups before hand. This is very important development.

personally i've been to china so many times and met lot of gay friends there, i see no problem being gay there, chinese government policy towards homosexuality is clear, they remain neutral, constitution has no articles against this issue
so every time i read fridae's articles about gay in china, it's all biased and seems influenced by biased-prejudiced western medias about china's issues

...no matter what things don't go well in China, it may be that the logic of  diversity and logic in general guides the principles of governing rather than the tyranny of religious zealots.  Not suggesting that suddenly China is a poster child for human rights (but in truth nor is the USA), rather that when human rights progress is being exhibited in the Chinese media...it's worth a moment of consciousness.

...also personally I must confess that although I abhor any persecution based on race, religion, sexuality, etc, etc...many religious groups seem ready and willing to sow seeds of prejudice, judgment and loathing out into society, sponsoring great suffering to be visited upon the disenfranchised, marginalized and minority populace. Yes this is not all religious people but it is overwhelmingly the dogmatic and doctrinal orthodoxy of most religions particularly Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Ultimately I believe people can think and socialize as they will, but their social affiliations should no be allowed to be politicized into a movement in legislation or otherwise to strip people who are different from themselves of their right to be who they are, and to live free of being victimized by perpetrators of hate crimes (often sponsored by religious cohorts).
In Peace
bearnard

@heimuk: I am the writer of this article. I write based on my experience living here for close to 9 years, and from my involvement in the gay movement here, not any "biased prejudiced" western media that you allude to. You see "no problem" being gay here? Well that's because you only travel here for short periods of time as a tourist and gay bars are the only thing you see. Government policy towards homosexuality is "neutral"? Who told you that? Have you seen how they vote on gay issues at the UN? Have you seen how they crack down on gay events and gay bars? Censor gay websites and movies? Please. Educate yourself on issues before commenting on them.

@heimuk: "i see no problem being gay there". This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. If by "being gay" you mean pretending to be straight basically all through your life other than having casual gay sex from time to time, then there is no problem "being gay" anywhere. People have been having gay sex everywhere all through human history. "they remain neutral". Gays in China can't even hold a film festival! Not to mention any political activities. If you don't care about this kind of rights, fair enough, but be aware that there are some gays, including some in China, who actually care about their rights. If you don't support their fight for equality, at least respect it. Don't praise the oppressor.

@heimuk, there are many gays in China dont dare to come out cuz once they do so, they lose their family(who is eager for the kinship with their grandchildren.) and some people get married in the end even their family know that he's gay, just to build a phony protections around them to escape all the criticisms.
so dont ever try to say that hideous comments (sorry, I really wanna use the word "hideous") before dissecting the reality happening in China.

I have lived and worked in China for 7 years. My first day in China, I looked up and there were six men, all in military uniforms, holding hands. With only hearing the Western view that everything in China is oppressive, I was shocked at men holding hands. Then I find out it is just for friendship and quite common. From my view, being gay is no different from Chinese law restricting public display of affection (kissing) in public. This is a cultural issue. Personal relations are private and not to displayed in public. Same is true for being gay. There is great fear by many men in China of rejection by family. However, most people in general, when they know someone is gay say, 'so what?' Things like a Gay Film Festival are similar to gay bars. Bars in Shanghai are routinely closed, yet a couple of bars in Beijing have been around for years. Why? Guanxi! It's all about who you know, how much you're willing to pay them to look the other way, and how corrupt the local officials are. If you visit a gay dance bar and a straight dance bar in China, it is easy to see that the gay dance bar allows behavior that would never be tolerated in a straight dance bar. A straight bar would not allow men to take their clothes off, touch all over each others bodies, and simulate sex acts while dancing; all of those are very common in the gay dance bar in Beijing. As I often remind gay, Chinese friends. Even though homosexuality is much more accepted in the USA, there is also more violence against gays. One study showed there are over 14 violent acts against gays in the USA every day. A gay Film Festival would only be tolerated or accepted in a large, metropolitan city in the USA (maybe only 10 American cities). China has a lot of growth to do culturally. This isn't just a government issue. Even if China decided tomorrow that gay marriage is legal, it does not erase the cultural issue of the stigma attached to a family with a gay son. With the one child policy, families that have a son want their family to carry on into future generations through their son's marriage and child. While that sentiment is somewhat common around the world it is even more culturally attached in China. As most gay Chinese know, the government's approval would be welcomed, however it will not change the culture overnight.

As for the religious persecution, perhaps it is best to know what you're talking about before making such profound assumptions. From my conversations with many Chinese citizens, government officials, police, military as well as my own visual evidence, there are Churches all over China. People don't get arrested for going to church. It's against the law to try to convert, recruit, or spread religion in China. Basically that law keeps religious groups from forming large masses for protest or have influence on Chinese rule. This same reasoning is why the Dalai Lama was exiled over 50 years ago. China does not want religion involved in their government. After their review of a country like America whose laws are built on a basic foundation of religious beliefs that is easy to understand.

Even Amsterdam, which has long been known as the Gay Capital of the world has reported huge increases in violence against gays over the past few years. The USA revoked the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy for military members over a month ago, yet one soldier was discharged last week for being gay (*because the new open policy has not been officially introduced into the "Uniform Code of Military Justice, UCMJ" yet. The point is, regardless of the government, culture, or family values in any country, each person must decide how to live their life. There will always be obstacles in life. Finding a way to work around those obstacles, no matter what the issue, is the key to a successful and happy life. I have met many gay male couples in China who live together. From what they tell me, their life is not much different from gay couples in America. For the most part people leave them alone, however there are always people living nearby that judge them or make fun of them, but for the most part, people leave them alone. When the Chinese culture changes, the Chinese government will undoubtedly change too.

#23 oh, yes...i think you should watch this video and maybe you can reconsider the word "Earth-shattering" you used for your title...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HhBA0Cqf4s
make an article about this video as well...

#23 obviously, you still can open fridae there in mainland china, and educate me if you think you are more competent on this issue since you staying there for years
somehow i wonder how you view this kind of issue, particularly which perspective and values that you use, to measure the neutrality about something， and i really doubt about your comprehensive chinese, i don't think words "slams" is something CCTV did to this lady
this article, and indeed, you are the author, about a media in china (which in your point of view, controlled by government, or anyone who in power) who "slams" someone against homosexuality and seems like "defend" sexuality, the fact, it doesn't defend anyone, it just about something happens, something hot in internet media, but i do see neutrality here as a media, this neutrality probably hard to see in other medias, especially western medias, which they always right, in other hand, asian perspective, seems nothing...
i see no attacking words during whole article, which can associate the word "slams" that you used for your title
雖然你居住在內地有一段時間， 不過可能你只是鑽牛角尖看事情，當然就裏出不來了。
個個文化有它自己得觀點和價值觀, 那是無可否認得， 我看了斷片幾次， 沒發現任何詞匯可以和你的“SLAMS”相提并論， 我覺得你的觀點和中文理解能力應該要提升一些
所以我覺得，擋你要發表言論， 特別是這種比較敏感會有煽動性和容易被誤解的課題， 還是了解了狀況， 重不同角度來看事情得來龍去脈， 不偏向 不偏袒的前敵來發表
重個個讀者的反應和發表， 看得出來對事情的了解已經被你的言論給弄亂了。。。

I'm just glad to guys on here talking about something intelligent instead of how hot the guy pictured is...

It is refreshing.

From a far it seems to be more anti- evangelists than pro-gay. It is also very anti-Twitter, a real warning not to assume you can tweet your own thoughts freely. I feel that many religions have created more problems that they solved, guilt being the weapon of choice of many and shame being the tool of control. Plus murderous executions in too many places, still. So break out of your schooling or brain washing and think for yourself.

There is nothing intelligent about this "discussion". The Chinese government is slamming and cracking down on a religious minority, and another minority group, ie gays, is "celebrating" it. It's so wrong. Solidarity! Do people know what this word means?

I agree that the West is extremely homophobic, but why is it relevant at all? By the way, it's racist to link homophobia in China with Chinese culture. Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan are all variants of Chinese culture (only for the purpose of this discussion here, as I totally respect these regions' cultural identities), and they are all advanced economies, but they have very different levels of gay liberation, no matter in terms of legislation or public opinion. It all depends on in each region how much ordinary people, gay or straight, have fought for gay rights.

Oh well, once again, it all has to do with Christianity and Homophobes. I don't understand why some people have to put others down when they themselves are already quite pathetic. Just to make themselves feel better? smh

In the 1960s, it was the Cultural Revolution...trust me, in China, now it's the Queer Revolution! (Tong Zhi Da Ge Min)

And here in Vietnam, apparently the government is discussing the question of gay marriage. Will they endorse it? For the fore-seeable future, probably not. But they're talking about it - that's a start. The first step would be to say: "Being gay is OK!". In my opinion Mother Nature has her ways for population control - homosexuality is one of them.

Mother Nature knows best - listen to what she's trying to tell us - there are too many people on this planet - stick your dick where it doesn't pro-create or wrap it up. If there wasn't another baby born in Asia for the next ten years, there would still be too many people.

Being gay is natural and naturally, I'm gay.

just a stale sucker, Lü Liping, nothing worth to talk.

Lü liping - u UGLY bitch!

It seems the Chinese government, unlike the American government, has correctly ascertained that evangelical Christianity is far more dangerous to society than homosexuality.

Plin085 needs to lighten up and get laid. He is far too young to have so little sense of humor and be so bitter.

there is no society on earth that is perfect in every way , Not that of the U.S.A. , not that of China , or India ,European states etc , we all strife in our own way to make our society's more just equal and tolarant of the vieuws and lifestile of others , Moa had a point when he vieuwed religion as the poison of the people (exept in my vieuw , it is some people who make it so)

"born-again evangelical" = alarm bells.
Anti-loonies is better than anti-gay. One step at a time.

People can belief in whatever they want - no matter now weird it may seem to others. As long as they don't try and force that belief onto others. Problem is, it is never that clear cut to the religious.

The problem comes when believers seek to convert others (why not, as they are already on the "right" and "perfect" path!) It is inevitable that god then tells them to do whatever is necessary to spread their beliefs and impose their values.

Religion can induce non-thinking blind following. Cos god-says. That just increases the likelihood of stupidity (forget an oncologist, just pray to fix cancer), bigotry (people who are x, y, z are inhuman), and craziness (god says to kill my kids).

Religion is by nature incapable of tolerance and respect for others.

Believers want the freedom to believe and practice their religion. I support that.

But at the same time, they also want to impose their values and rules on everyone. By changing the laws, changing school curricula, and by violence.

They seek to take away other's rights even as they demand the same rights.

That is sick.