Fridae

WHAT AN INSULT!!!

wah..now the str8 people are going to kill the gays.

just becoz...we are gay... WTF!

I agree that the title is horridly phrased, but I think that is not the issue here. Uganda is trying to enforce a bill where you are punishable for being gay and engaging in homosexual acts. Should that not be more horrifying than the wrongly given title to the poll? I believe if possible, we should step up and denounce this horrible misguided act. If this happnes in Uganda who's to say it won't happen where we live?

ok, now i really need to bring some sort of weapon just in case there is a need for self-defence -____-"

What a %£$%"£"&^ liberty !!!!!

I can't believe this David Stead guy, the BBC's World Service Africa program editor, is still defending the question.
Some questions should not even be asked.
Not even in jest.

It's like asking "Should the Japanese invade Nanking and massacre the citizens?"
Or "Should the Nazis round up the millions of Jews, minorities, homosexuals and handicapped to have them all killed?"

If you value lives, if you know the true importance of human rights, you won't ever ask whether homosexuals should face execution.
The BBC is a complete disgrace.
I see nothing has changed since the Victorian Age.
Baaaah!

Perhaps all of the HETEROsexuals around the world should face execution?
Afterall:
a. when they breed, they often produce queers...if QUEERS are a "problem", then eliminate the cause: Heterosexual breeding.
b. they are overwhelmingly responsible for overpopulation, pollution, raping the earth of its resources and beauty and global warming, poverty and spreading disease.
c. they are well-known to be criminals, child abusers and child molesters.
d. Statistically, when compared to homosexuals, they are also largely infamous hypocrites, thieves and murders.

An outgrowth of centuries of hate toward us, oppression, marginalization and stigmatization have made us QUEERS and LESBIANS very resourceful, creative world citizens. We'd find ways to procreate and we would make sure that all HETEROsexual children born into the world (after the extermination of all HETEROS), would be well educated and properly raised as compassionate, peace-loving creatures who would contribute to the greater good of the planet.

Anyone care to draw up a poll and post it on the internet, or, better yet, give it to the BBC?

That sounds like the X-Men series...

the fourth kind are mocking at us...

I do agree that the Headline alone is offensive but it has managed to raise the profile of this very real threat to gays in Uganda - but this already happens in many countries in this world now today, not a future threat or movie plot but it does happen, Look at Iran and Iraq for example. I'm not being an Islamaphob there are plenty of legally documented cases.

This is the present for lots of gays!

Let me ask you this. If the BBC did not raise that question, would people even bother about what's happening in Uganda right now, where they are putting a death sentence on gay people for having sex?

If anything, the BBC should be commended for bringing out the outrage that it has by even bringing up the question.

I think the question is valid, sadly but surely, because there are nation's that actually put it within their laws to punish a man or woman for being a homosexual with a death sentence.

By the reactions it has garnered, BBC has proven one thing. Even the thought of a death sentence for being gay is a shameful, disgraceful thing to even bring to question.

For that, I think the BBC has not proven itself a disgrace, but has proven that people will not stand for such idiotic laws. It's a wake up call against the Ugandan government, and their move has highlighted the Ugandan government's want to pass their homophobic law.

So in a way, the public is more aware of how shameful the African nation is. Kudos to the BBC for that.

I completely agree with aput. The title of the poll is not preposterous. What is preposterous is Uganda's parliament getting their way and passing a law that will execute our gay brothers and sisters. It is offensive and abhorrent. It's a wake up call against the Ugandan govt and all other organization who are supporting and influencing them. We may think it's happening on the other side of the world but the same people and organization who are helping and influencing them are right in our own backyards. Scary but true.

I think it's just a silly, silly mistake from BBC.

It's right, as suggested by posts 10 and 11, that the shock generated by the BBC (Africa desk) putting such an outrageous question online as if it's just a matter of opinion, has hopefully helped publicise what is going on in Uganda and other African countries as a result of the campaign of misinformation and fearmongering by US evangelists and their local fanatical friends. They are at work in the UK, Singapore, HK, etc., too as we've all seen in articles on fridae.com, and sometimes in the comments columns.

Strange though that I've seen nothing on the BBC news broadcasts about what's going on, and no documentaries, which I would have expected by now. When Uganda expelled all the Asians in the 1970s there was plenty of coverage then, and the UK gave them a home.

But the BBC acted in a way that clearly invited simple homophobic responses rather than rational debate (if that is even possible on such an issue). The BBC also omitted a lot of information and background in the introduction, such as how the proposed law affects the rest of the population of Uganda with it's McCarthyite punishments on anyone who knows a gay person and doesn't turn them in, or tries to tell the truth about gay people, or support them in any way.

On that last point, the guy who posts the Gay Uganda blog, today quotes the proposer of the bill, Bahati, as saying if his own brother was gay he would arrest him himself and take him to the police station. This is the family values of the fundamentalists.

"THURSDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2009

The love of a Brother
Told you of my brother,... the one who is a Pentecostal Pastor. I would trust him with a knife to my throat.

Yes I would.

That is why I went to him when I felt I needed to come out to my family. That is why I went to him with an almost impossible request. I love him. We differ in many things, but, he is blood, and he is my brother.

Where I grew up, I learnt that family, extended family, clan, tribe. Those were the things that mattered.

I have other brothers, and other sisters. I know that they know my sexuality. With most, I have not talked. With some, I am not that close. But, they are family. They are blood. And, that small fact wipes out all our differences. Even if I am gay.

But, David Bahati would report his brother to the police. Indeed, he would arrest him himself. Here:


"It is the first bill Bahati has ever written, and he calls it a "very wonderful piece of legislation." His bill would impose the death penalty on adults who have gay sex with minors. And it would jail anyone who fails to report gay activity to police within 24 hours.
And what if his brother were engaging in homosexual activity?
"I'd arrest him myself and take him to the police," Bahati says."

http://gayuganda.blogspot.com/2009/12/love-of-brother.html

This should never never been publicized on the BBC website as a debate. What a load of disingeuous rubbish to say the Beebs simply wanted to reflect the diverse views on homosexuality in Africa. What diverse views? That Africa is full of bible-toting homophobic religious zealots? That there are people in Africa with deeply abhorent homophobic views, that there's no concept of basic human rights or that human lives are utterly dispensable in Africa? C'mon David Stead, you're either extremely naive or disingenous wanting to create publicity for the Beebs.

I think the question, 'Should homosexuals face execution?', is inane.

If you repeatedly find cockroaches in your restaurant food, you don't ask "Should restaurant food contain cockroaches?'. A better question would be "Are the health officials doing their job?"

If you witness a son beating up his mother and robbing her of her money, you don't ask "Should we beat up and rob our mother?".

Imagine how ridiculous it'd be for a school principal to ask questions like:
1) "Should pupils curse at their principal?"
2) "Should pupils burn their classroom?"
3) "Should pupils kick their teachers?"

Imagine how senseless it'd be for a police spokesperson to ask questions like:
1) "Should robbers rape their victims?"
2) "Should burglars kill their victims?"
3) "Should drugs be smuggled into the country?"

I am glad the question had been rephrased with a little more sense. But I still think that the rephrased question is inappropriate. A British broadcaster and the British public are in no position to tell a sovereign nation's Parliamentarians what to debate on. But it certainly is in the position to bring this issue to the attention of its own government, the international community, the United Nations and the international courts.

My suggestions for BBC:
1) "Should the British government condemn Uganda's proposed Kill the Gays Bill?"
2) "Should the international community condone Uganda's proposed Bill to execute gays?"
3) "Should the United Nations condone Uganda's Bill to execute gays?"

An incredibly irresponsible question! Regardless of what "silver lining" may come from it, the issue regarding homophobia in Uganda could have been addressed without inflaming violence against gays worldwide.

it is simple; stop any financial or social assistance to countries that make homosexuality a crime!

I truthfully tried to look at this reasonably and in light of the BBC's defense of the headline. After really turning it over in my head and honestly trying to see it from different perspectives, I still couldn't come to any other conclusion: A horribly, horribly poor judgment call on the BBC's part. There should never be any sort of poll like this! Like others have said, the question shouldn't even be up for debate.

It actually reminded me of the brilliant satirical essay by Jonathan Swift, "A Modest Proposal" in which the author suggested calmly and rationally that the poor working class people of Ireland should sell, skin, and eat their children. Swift, however, was using irony and satire to make a political point (about the English landowners' attitude towards the poor Irish, whom they considered quite expendable); here, there is no satire, no point to be made. It's like asking the question, "Should poor parents murder cannibalize their children so they can save on groceries?" It's simply not a poll that any civilized society should undertake. The question itself is so offensive and outrageous that it would never even be asked. And thus it should be so with a question like, "Should homosexuals be executed?"

I'm appalled by the BBC's lack of ethical judgment and social responsibility and am quite heartened to see that it resulted in a huge backlash.

Obviously the answer is yes. What debate could there possibly have been on this topic?

I spent some time on Fridae this morning reading articles and the comments left for the articles. There are more responses about the American who became Mr HK than there are on any other topic.

I feel we are like the frog in the pot who boiled alive because we are keep tolerating and dismissing key events when they happen. We can't see the correlation.

What is happening in Uganda and Rwanda right now can easily happen to us. It didn't not for lack of trying from the anti-gay christian right. Our memories are short. We have already forgotten the Aware EGM that took place in May this year. And we may have won that, but what has happened in the end? MOE now hires vendors who will provide abstinence-only sex education. Homosexuality is not mentioned unless it is condemned and derogated.

We have forgotten how we grew up, in an environment where there is no information about homosexuality. Any materials that we could find were all anti-gay. Some of us are lucky now, we walked out of the dark skies. But in 2010, we have another generation of youth who will not have accurate and objective information about sexuality and sexual orientation.

In 2010, half the world is fighting for gay rights and the other half is trying to revive hitler. This is really serious. If the right wing continues to infiltrate the government, what is there to stop the same laws from being instituted here? We take for granted that the government will not change. We forget the government is made up of individuals who are human and can be christian and right wing. When it starts here, no one will ask a question on BBC. It will just happen.

I dropped a comment on the blog of editor of BBC World Service. You guys may want to write your comments on that blog.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2009/12/africa_debate.html

"I subscribed to BBC World on cable television in Singapore and read BBC news online almost daily because I believed it is a reliable news sources. A news agency that provides high quality of news reporting. I just created this BBC ID to post my comment here and the first thing I read was the house rules which includes no homophobic comment allowed.

You have no idea how much I relied on BBC because most of the time, gay individuals like me do not get news on LGBTQ communities around the world in Singapore's heavily censored media.

While I am totally disgusted and helpless with Ugandan government's decision, I am more shocked with your editor's decision to conduct a debate and use such a tasteless and unacceptable title. BBC might think it got a lot of people to sit up and react strongly, it need to recognise that it is most disrespectful to a fellow human being and totally unnecessary to debate if one deserves to die just because he is different.

All of us are familiar with how Holocaust or Rwandan massacre happened, these tragedies did not happen overnight but years of poisonous propaganda prepared the ground for them. Your editor might think it is a one off mistake but it could have added energy to what are already happening around the world.

Thank you for your apology but please remember to catch yourself before more of these happen. A angry subscriber can always terminate his subscription but a misinformed one can do a lot of harm"

It's something that shouldn't be questioned! What an insult!

omg! genocide!

i only read the entertainment section of the bbc nowaday. what a rubbish news org.

Must be a slow day at BBC. The BBC Editors must be gleefully rejoicing at the publicity they're getting.

the post by jules_tinman #22 makes a point that i've heard expressed for at least 8 years; that homosexuals will be the next "holocost" victims in our world, and in our lifetime.

I didn't/couldn't believe that in the 21st century such a thing could be possible, so I put it in the back of my mind, and dismissed the notion as merely alarmist and an impossiblity. But with the momentum the xtian fanatics are building, as they spread hatred and fear and poison the minds of people everywhere, I can now see that such a thing is not only possible, it is standing on our doorstep.

For 4 years of my life, I was one of those "born again", fanatical xtians. I attended their services and hungrily soaked up their dogmas....until I woke up from my trance, accepted my homosexuality and was freed from the grips of their hatred.

Let me tell you this: they ARE dangerous, and they DO have a Hatred/Extermination Agenda.

Another balls up from the BBC. The people responsible for this should all be sacked.

I wonder if it hit the UK papers?

Should heterosexuals be executed?

The missing part of the BBC's post:

"Has Uganda gone too far?
Should there be any level of legislation against homosexualaity?
Should homosexuals be protected by legislation as they are in South Africa?
What would be the consequences of this bill to you?
How will homosexual 'offences' be monitored?

Send us your views."

My view is somebody has to pay for this post.

Yep it was in the uk papers - I saw in the telegraph and the guardian

Should BBC be executed?

Should David Stead face execution?

I think the most disturbing question we should be looking at is whether if this is an honest phrasing mistake, or whether such a topic can even be seen as debatable.

There is an urgent need for the gay community to be empowered so that they may be mobilized if the situation calls for it to take whatever actions collectively that may be necessary to counter any threats to their rights of freedom.

We should thank Fridae for doing a great job empowering the LGBT community in Asia in various ways. The networking opportunities and the information it provides empower the community emphatically. Beside these, Fridae had been a champion of the fight against HIV, of the campaign to petition for the repeal of Section 377a, of the PinkDot (the first licensed massive public gay gathering in Singapore), and of promoting the arts in the community. It truly lives up to its mission of empowering gay Asia.

In retrospect, in order to prevent our continent from slipping into the Dark Ages, which Africa has, we must empower broadly, across national borders, the LGBT in especially the less developed and progressive nations in our region.

Particularly, we should strive to collectively and jointly raise the economic, political and social status of the LGBT community in the region. As suggested in my comments on Dr Kua's article, we should enhance the mobility of LGBT members by empowering them with the OPTION to emigrate and the ability to find gainful employment in more liberal countries. The brightest amongst us should also coach those juniors who possess the intellectual capacity to excel academically, financially and politically by, for example, becoming lawyers, judges, politicians and businessmen. This will insure that our interests are safeguarded.

In Iceland where the Prime Minister is gay, in the United Kingdom where the de facto deputy Prime Minister Lord Mandelson is gay, and in Germany where the Vice Chancellor is gay, the LGBT community are not worried that their country would dawn into the Dark Ages.

Beside nurturing the elites, for gay activism to work, we need to cultivate a large number of gays who have fulfilled the lower levels of needs on Maslow's hierarchy and also been informed about these issues and their rights. If the majority are ignorant of these issues and their rights, and can barely satisfy their lower needs, we would lack the number. So, it's important for us to work on promoting literacy, proficiency in English, IT literacy, awareness of gay issues and HIV prevention, educational advancement, economic development, mobility, etc. in the community.

Yes, some strong points that I hope everyone will read and consider...

Instead of ("only") promoting circuit parties, pride parades, "gay" this and "gay" that (and I'm NOT dissing the value and fun of these events and causes!!), we additionally need to build, organize and embellish our own sub-cultural (gay) infrastructure with the strengths, competencies and capabilities that sunthenmoon (post 37) lists above:

1. Literacy
2. Proficiency in English
3. IT Literacy
4. Awareness of (important and relevant) gay issues
5. HIV Prevention
6. Educational Advancement
7. Economic Development
8. Mobility (economic and geographical ie: immigration/emigration)

(and I'll ad this one: just look at what Evan Low is accomplishing)
9. Knowledge of Government and Government Involvement

ALL nine of these are up to each and every one of us to seek out and accomplish first for ourselves. No one can do these things for you.

Can we please focus more intensely, authentically, and passionately on being the BEST QUEERS we can possibly be, and turn our flaming fires, our burning passions and awesome talents toward making our world a better one for everyone?

Please?

I'm afraid most people are just more interested in endless circuit parties where booze and sex flow like rivers to the ocean.

Just back from a party! Still tipsy. Thanks for your comments. Guess what, I just saw a team of volunteers in the club who were offering anonymous HIV testing, and I managed to to persuade 2 friends to get tested (I already got tested negative recently). Somehow, I thought that there were too many of them serving too little test-takers, though. Perhaps where there is excess manpower for a certain area, we should also direct some to other areas of activism like those you had kindly listed?

I got an inspiration when I was in the club waiting for the crowd to pack. Wouldn't it be nice if the club could air the headings of news like this on its monitors before we packed? It could well help to create awareness in the clubbers of these issues who might otherwise pay no attention to them. Just a suggestion. :)

if i think polygamous husbands and serial cheaters should be executed, is that OK? after all, the aids epidemic in africa was from serial cheating husbands, not gays. this conversation is demonic and reminds of the prejudice and hatred we still face.

The way this idiotic "question" was worded on BBC is more due to racism by the BBC than outright homophobia. It's an obvious dismissal of all African life as worthless by the UK state-endorsed TV for which a levy is being taxed and collected by the Crown (i.e. minions of Elizabeth II).

Racism? (comment 42) By the BBC? i'm sure we're well past the old days of colonialism when in the British colony of Singapore, an infamous sign was once reported to be placed outside a British establishment. It read: No Chinamen and dogs allowed. Nonetheless, bigotry of all kinds does still travel in all forms... sometimes as disenfranchised and tunnel-visioned kay-pohs, both straight and gay.
The "poll" was surely just a tunnel-visioned miscalculation by an often excellent, if still fallible and imperfect, institution. There is no way the BBC would not be outraged by such a barbaric proposition akin to what takes place in Iran, and they assumed everyone would know that by now. That perhaps was the mistake.

Who cares, just dont use my tax money to support them, including all bloody religions around the world, most of this shit comes from religion - all religion is poison - "god is dead,man killed him- long live man"

Yes, indeed, some awful things and political battles, have been done and fought in the name of religion. By politicians or nutcases who claimed to believe in good, but offered hate. And yes, too often, ordinary, religious and straight folk have failed to accept or understand their LGBT brothers and sisters. But, it is also horrifyingly true that the supreme dictators of murder and genocide were far from "religious", but were ideological atheists - Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin... i don't think any of them cared for LGBTs to put it mildly, and the historical list goes on. The problem, sorry, is Man.

Christmas 2009

I'd like if i may, before year's end, to say how much i've appreciated those from both East and West, who have selflessly shared their deeply personal stories from the heart this past year, like SL Yang and "matjoy" and several others who did so in forum for the sake of others, often without thanks. THANK YOU, sirs.

Thanks also to those great souls abroad who truly love and understand Asia, and those who made me smile unexpectedly - like "chadm252" and Malaysia's intrepid "aput" among others - a sense of humour can be good medicine indeed. "Kuman" i feel is often misunderstood, but i enjoy his stubbornly independent perspectives.

I'd also like to pay tribute to the late Singapore social worker, Anthony Yeo, a Christian who has received loving testimonials from LGBTs. i didn't know Mr Yeo personally, only one of his close colleagues, but i was much moved by those testimonials on Fridae following his passing this year.

Finally, a merry, joyful and blessed Christmas to all Christians here, especially those who are far from home.

And may 2010 see dreams coming true for all who propagate peace and Love, rather than hate and animosity.

Cheers!

A Merry Christmas to gay friends in Uganda! I'd like to update you about the latest progress on the Kill the Gays Bill.

"MEP Michael Cashman, the co-president of the European Parliament's Intergroup on LGBT Rights, has called the bill "deeply worrying" and said his group will be keeping an eye on developments."

"UK prime minister Gordon Brown told President Museveni last month of his concerns and the United Nations and the World Health Organisation have said that Uganda may lose the chance to host an important permanent Aids research organisation if the bill is passed."

"The President of Uganda has threatened to veto the a controversial new bill that could see homosexuals sentenced to the death penalty or lifetime imprisonment.

US newspaper DC Agenda claims that President Yoweri Museveni pledged to US secretary of state for African affairs Jonnie Carson on two separate occasions that he would reject the bill currently making its way through parliament."

That's a great news. If the President veto the Bill, then it may not become law.

This is, of course, frightening. If the BBC thinks this is a fit subject to be put up for debate, what chance do we have in less sophisticated countries?

Living in a country which believes it still has the power it once had as an empire, means that the world still listens and watches and takes the lead from many articles, interviews, debates and beliefs that are bestowed upon the people of the UK by the people that we elect to power and govern over us. However, as a nation fewer and fewer of us are prepared to fight for what is right, whatever that may be, and the more educated we make the people of the nations, the more frightened people are becoming every day.

Think back only twenty years ago to 1990 and being gay in the UK was not something that was accepted, agreed upon or openly accepted by a government that believed that we were a leading power in the world. Being a gay teenager in 1990 and growing up in a society that expected you to find a girl, get married and have children because of the education system's forced guidance on how to live life, I had very unreal expectations of how we would be accepted as a group of people.

As a young man I was involved in the gay community in Scotland in the hope that I would be able to change the views and opinions for the better. But even within the gay community as it was then, the fighting for what people believed was right was taken to an extreme, and indeed the gay community (or the gay mafia, as it partly felt . . . you know the group, the men and women who sat on every panel, every committee and run every gay organisation in the area) never once believed that if we connected more with the gay scene, then we could bridge that gap.

Now twenty years later, the two never match or join up enough to be part of this great society that the world seems to continually fight for. INstead it seems even more pigeon holed into them and us, and even now in the UK where we have the right to be civil partnered with the one we love, gay men don't really want that, now it seems they want to merge the lines between men and women and become even more ostricised than even twenty years ago.

Until the world stops fighting against the millions of different beliefs and the nations who have the ears of the world stop delivering tripe on their websites and news reports, and we as a nation and as a group of the world's elaborate differences build on positive relationships and merge the boundaries and lines that are put up around us, the world will get further and further into the despair that we read every day in the news.

I once heard a young jewish man talk of his experience of visiting Auswitz and how 'we are a family' and should take pride in the unity it brings . . . I was so impressed listening to him until I realised that what he meant was the family he meant was the jewish family . . . the largest group that were murdered by Hitler. I continued to ask him further probing questions, and he had no idea that alongside the Jews in WWII, many communities were executed for being different, whether disabled, communist, slow of learning or indeed the nation that we are part of . . . the homosexual community and yet, here we are over sixty years after the end of WWII and still reading about nations wishing to execute men and women for loving and caring for people of the same sex . . . this should be where we put a stop to it.

Reading a lot of articles, and I have to say fabulously written articles on this website about the political plights of the gay groups in countries like the Phillipines make me feel proud to call myself a gay man.

The BBC should do more than just apologise for the 'wrong wording' of their poll, but indeed use the power to address the fears of the world, by helping put an end to what ultimately is a horrible re-enactment of the atrocities of the second world war.

Come on people, we are a nation united throughout the world by our common liking for people of the same sex . . . stand together and put an end to the fighting.

Even in the US, an austrian governor says no to homosexuality in California . . . the gayest state in the US, and Obama needs to address that.

Be a nation, be a power and stand up for your rights.

What a rant . . . don't know even if it all makes sense, but was appauled by the actions of the BBC and the people of the UK.

watch the latest development at
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04gay.html?scp=3&sq=Uganda%20gay&st=csehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04gay.html?scp=3&sq=Uganda%20gay&st=cse

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html?scp=1&sq=Uganda%20gay%20American&st=csehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html?scp=1&sq=Uganda%20gay%20American&st=cse