Fridae

Looks like Singapore is no longer Disneyland with the death penalty? You can kill a man and get away with between one to three years of foot drills, counselling, education and vocational training.

This is god damn horrible. but it's a consequence of government and media gay bashing policies. you can 't expect to place some citizens as second class, and not having this hapenning sooner or later. it's a hate crime, and doesnt really matter if the guy exposed himself too much or not, it's just horrendous.and the 17yo ones should be trialled as adults and not just be sent to a reform center

Graffiti = beating with a cane in public
Murder = foot drills for a few months

So many things to say about the climate in Singapore regarding homosexuality, but I think that attitudes change only when people become engaged in the issue. Similar to the Matthew Wayne Shepard killing in the US that sparked a sense of outrage in the gay community, but spread to the straight community, the reaction of average Singaporeans to both the crime and the sentencing is important and should be reviewed, analyzed and reported.

Prejudice is exercised in many forms, often unintentionally. Reading the sentences the three younger men received, I am curious as to whether or not 1) the sentencing followed the norms of Singapore law and 2) had these same youths been found smuggling drugs above the limits that bring death sentences would their punishment been more, equally or less severe than has occurred? If there is prejudice in the sentencing, then one need look no further than the judiciary and the government. However, if the general population is indifferent to prejudice in carrying out the laws of Singapore, then we may see that hate crimes of this nature are implicitly accepted by a large portion of the population. Should this be the case, then lobbying the government for change is not likely to result in real change; it's the general population that would need to be swayed.

The Singapore government are in part to blame for the continuing homophoebic attitude of so many in its society by maintaining laws that fail to reflect modern insights in psychology and genetics which show reasonably clearly that being homosexual is just another part of God's amazing diversity in creation. It is now considered NOT to be a llife style choice or even an environmental/family upbringing that makes one gay. The major religions likewise conribute to this middle ages thinking by retaing homosexuality as a sin instead of a given from God. Dr Mike Nixon MBBS & Anglican Priest, DARWIN> AUSTRALIA

Its so ridiculous that ppl can get away with taking another's life with just 18mths to 3 yrs at a reformative training centre. A more equitable judgement should also include monetary compensation to the families of the deceased. I suggest that the family of the accused be made to pay compensation to the deceased family for lost of income. This would further deter such unjustifiable actions as family members are made to pay for their actions.

Graffiti = beating with a cane in public
Murder = foot drills for a few months

This is TERRIBLE. They could have said no and left. Ridiculous. I feel so sad. :(

Simply appalling. Even if this was not pre-meditated then at the very least it was still killing illegally due to the severity of the injuries and level of attack. Grevious hurt suggests a couple of punches which would still have been unjustified, all they had to do was walk away and ignore him.

If this had been maid killing maid then it would be off to the gallows immediately. Owner (and I mean owner, maid slavery is another can of worms altogether) kills maid and gets told better not do it again, six men beat another to death on the grounds of menacing homosexuality and all they get is a slapped wrist and some marching...

Makes me soooo glad that my one way flight out is already booked...

Well, the killing is terrible, but the victim has a much better chance of survival if he make such offering in gay clubs, and "recalibrate" his targeting system to guys of his age, minus few years or plus few decades.

a crime is a crime. justice doesnt to be on a balanced scales now.
true, the sentencing of the attackers seems less than what they deserved. we are angry with the injustice. but also look at what started it all.

from the general (hetero) point of view. a stranger, presumable gay, making indecent proposal of oral sex and exposing himself to a straight guy. it is totally not acceptable!
plus the guys already had declined his offer earlier.

closer to home. even in our own (gay) community, when old gays or in our eyes unattractive gays, wink at us, offer to blow, wank us, at the toilets of raffles city, citylink, ngee ann city... dont WE also feel offended too? anger?
surely u feel offended that how can that yucky person even think of touching ME (the beautiful, muscle bound, hunky monkey).. surely he must be kidding... get a life silly toilet queen!!!

so, think of the cause of the incident. it apllies to both the hetero and gay persons...
it can be considered a hate crime, coz they took advantage of suhaimi, five against one and attacking when he is already down on the ground.
but it is totally NOT the same as hate crimes in america or in the west, where gays are just beaten up for being gay, without any provocation.

right now the most important is a thought for the family, relatives and friends of the deceased. to know and remember that their loved one is dead because he proposed sex to complete strangers.
a silent prayer to appease his soul and strength for those he left behind.

But your honor... the faggot made a pass at me! One of the oldest defense ploys in the book, and used in a case where the only "witnesses" to this alleged proposition appear to be the other defendants. How truly sad and disgusting. Why is anyone assuming that the story is even true?

the attackers are GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they are too chicken to admit it
but its okay, they will be in jail soon...and u know...JAIL!!!
with the other male prisoners who, usually, desperately needed for.... well, u will know what will happen next ;)

In response to valiant-thor...

if I'm not wrong, orchard towers is widely known as the pick-up mall of singapore.

6 guys in a technical 'red light district'? the logical conclusion was that they were there to pick up hookers.

So it is not unreasonable to think that the attack was motivated my the flasher's homosexuality.

And in a twisted way, Suhaimi Bin Sulong was probably just doing his job =/



On another note, its so easy to blame society for everything that happens but at the end of the day it also boils down to the people involved.

The silent majority who read this, shake their head and lament what a horrible singapore society they live in, then close the window and do nothing else are also responsible for what happened here.

Its quite depressing that people this young commited the crime... polls still show a huge % of young people still do not understand homosexuality.

Just shows acceptance is still decades away i think.

p.s

The guy who was killed was probably a gay hooker, so technically his life's only worth 0.17 of a normal citizen..

It took an innocent child to get shot in the head to instill a bit of outrage in the already extremely liberal society of the US.

This incident will blow over in a day or 2. Such is 'the society' we live in.

the crime is utterly disgusting.

no one will ever know the truth behind it for only those left alive - the attackers were telling the tale.

i feel that the 18 month ~3 years sentence is WAY to light for people who have caused the death of someone.

they shouldn't get away with it so easily even though they're minors.

condolences.

In any murder case, the defense is entitled to present any mitigating factors at the penalty phase (just as the prosecution is entitled to present any aggravating factors). Given the facts as reported, Ahmad Nur Helmy's sentence should be lighter than his co-defendants as he was the only one who was sexually assaulted. The others participated in the killing on the assumption that the victim was gay, clearly an aggravating factor. Is the sentence of foot drills and rehabilitation proportional to the crime? Should a boy be caned for vandalism? Should a drug trafficker be sentenced to death? In Singapore, yes. No deluge of Western wisdom is going to change the jurisprudence in our favorite Asian city-state.

And please, this case is not remotely like the Matthew Shepard case where the victim met his killers in a bar and was killed like a caged animal. The victim here, Suhaimi, was the stalker in a public restroom who found the tables quickly turned (as they usually do in uncertain, explosive situations.) Suihaimi, while to be pitied and mourned, is no Matthew Shepard.

i think 18 to 3 years jailed is too light also. is someone life they took, they just took it, and if it just sentenced in jail for that long, then we all should rethink again about justice in singapore

Taking a life, any life, should not be left to Man (which means ANY jurisdiction ANYWHERE), no matter the circumstances, unless, perhaps, in extreme self-defense situations, which this tragic event does not appear to have merited.

Legal defense is a MUST and should be offered to everyone, including the chance for remorse and trying to make things right (somehow).

Compassion needs to be our collective motivation if we hope to lead by example. Retribution or reciprocity does not help in solving our issues, as some foreign governments have actually proven in recent years.

Non-violence hopefully is the way, if only we can survive and live to tell about it.

I cannot make up my mind from the information provided so far...it might have been a hate crime and the crime itself might have been provoked (perhaps, under mitigating circumstances, such as too much alcohol consumption or extreme loneliness, either which might have led to a temporary loss of mature judgment), but a life taken is putting a light out forever.

Sentencing...if the same standard was upheld for heterosexual harassment, the terms might have been fair, hard to say. Perhaps, someone below the age of 20 can learn a lot in 18 months to 3 years, perhaps not.

We grieve for all lives ended violently and unncessarily...I wish we could let the passion subside and use this very case as an example of what we ought not to be doing, engage in constructive dialogue and pay our respects to the life that has gone from us forever.

see, told ya guys... keep ya weewee in ya own pants! ALWAYS stay away from homophobics and NEVER EVER throw yeself at a man for Jesus' sake! Its either they break ya heart or worse ya bones--either ways, ya DIE trying! uh-huh! Condolences to the deceased sista though ..

We are too quick to judge. This case seemed like a gay desperately provoking others (whether they were straight or gays) for sex. The victim was actually spared earlier when the two Chinese men declined the oral sex offer. Howevver, the vicitm decided to advance further and target the other Malay friend by flashing himeself at 4am and finallly culminated in a piss-off by the group and ended in an uncalled-for death.

It is about a minor crime begetting a bigger crime if my interpretation of the scenario is correct. As a gay, I found it distasteful for another gay to provoke other gays for sex, not to mention straight men who might turn from neutral to anti-gays. It is about wisdom. Unless the victim happened to suffer some psychological problem which was untreated.

so young and already murderers.
the world that singapore lives in.

I don't think the pervert deserved to be beaten to death/murdered for his disgusting stupidity. Murder was totally unnecessary for that situation (and for most situations...). And the proposed sentencing is too light in this case.

This case echos eerily the Lawrence King incident where he was allegedly killed after "propositioning" his preperator. Seriously, some straight men really need a psychiatrist- why such vile hate?
And shame on those who point fingers at the victim. A life is already lost & some people still have the cheek to put on holier-than-thou airs. Crass.

This is disgusting !!! How can such a thing happen in Surprising Singapore ?

Before we judge , we should know the actual case. Lets not pass any judgment prematurely.

My take is as follow:-

1. Why go to Orchard Towers ? That is a place where most guys go there for some trills from prostitutes . For god sake , they are not into dicks , they are into cunts. Wet ones and no shit. What do you expect these guys to do when you flash your dick or offer a blow job to them ? Naturally they will react ( negatively ) Are'n't we asking for trouble by doing that in a territory that is not a home ground ? I think ( my 2 cents worth ) we should be more careful when we venture out in unfamiliar grounds- there are weird , homophobics and fuckig straight guys out there who will just not tolerate any of our antics behavior. So play smart and act smart. Why expose ourselves to these ass holes.

I know a life has been lost and a crime committed, what can be done to bring him back to life ? So please bros and sistas - brave ourselves and be street smart.

Go to a place where it's more known to be pro gay. Should anything of such bashing happens -- there is at least more of us there. Unity is strength and we have better defence. Why would a straight guy be in a gay area if he was not expecting some trills ????? Thaink about it !!

Lets move on and ensure that we are protected. This bashing should stop and must stop.

I think our tough laws & sentence are not applied here because the boys are underage ? Below 21 ??? But I see there is a 21 and 28 ???? What happen to them unless it was proven that they were not the ones physically abusing the victim. You get a good lawyer to defend you , you get away with murder. Simply that !! That's the law lor

Many of the responses below are shocking.

Being homophobic is not a mitigating factor to murder.

In Canada, additional penalties apply to crimes motivated by hate based on race, religion, sexual orientation etc.

No one have any right to take another being life away! whether is human or animal, str8 or gay..
Sentenced given is too light..

Singapore is NEVER short of a surprise.

Death or life sentence for cocaine or ecstasy possession...

18 months to three years detention for a brutal murder.

Justice is spoken.

Murder = 18months??
Where's the logic? Concern is, will this encourage even more similarly case from happening and putting gay community at risk?? Absurd!!

ONLY be confined at a reformative training centre ? Gosh! What a judgement ! These idiots should not only be jailed and caned but go through some reform mental education to accept others.
Singapore's juridical at fault ? Ridiculous!!!!

I think we should take this whole scenario in its proper CONTEXT. Yes, this is clearly PARTIALLY a hate crime..the triggering factor being Helmy feeling he was 'sexually molested' by Suhaimi.

1) how often do hate crimes of this nature happen in Sg, involving gay bashing? (unlike say in the west). Rarely.
2) Have you ever heard of str8 sg guyz cruising around picking up gay guys just to beat the s*** out of them in Sg? No, hardly, never. This happens in the US, Australia & Europe (probably less so in Europe even).
3) In the ST full story, Suhaimi turned around and STARED at his attackers... a complete NO NO in the Sg context!!! Many youngsters have died in gang fights involving staring here!!! If he did not do that, he might probably have lived.

So lets not get our knickers in a bind & claim Sg is suddenly the centre of gay-bashing. I feel much safer here than in Australia or the US.

I m not condoning violence in any form - it shd be stopped & punished. And to take a life because one feels 'sexually molested' and the victim STARES back at you.. is something that should be severely punished.

I'm no fan of the ROTAN.. not for those who do not commit violence against another or to animals.. but clearly in this case, those thugs will onli understand the gravity of their misdeeds with the scars to remind them they took a life.

Great Job, Well Done!

Reading some of the responses after my earlier post, it's really sad that some people lacked the understanding that murder is just PLAIN WRONG.
Little wonder my Singaporean ex once said- with shame- that most of her fellow counterparts are so devoid of humanity it's almost scary.
Yes Suhaimi is indeed stupid, 'provoking' & hitting on straight guys in a very hetrosexist red-light envirornment. Does that justify his murder? NO! Besides, these very same men will no doubt have no qualms hitting on any women they fancy, the question is WHY the double standard? That its ok to harass girls whether they're interested or not, yet fit to bash or even kill another guy who hits on you? Why can't they just decline & walk away?
But post #30 Euan you are right abt one thing- the gay bashing in Asian countries are not as worse as in Australia & especially the US...& the worrying thing is, such aggressiveness is slowly creeping in via trashy American media influences.
As can be seen very clearly in above incident.

This teaches us how to get away from a murder crime. If you hate somebody, just beat him death, accuse him has a pass on you (he is death), and you can get a light sentence. Try it!!

the boys are not supposed to be there to begin with. 17 and in pubs? and commit murder as well? they should lengthen the sentence.

I agree with post #27.

Kudos to Singapore

As much as I dont condone what has been done, I think we as a community should also not condone sexually harassing others by way of offering sex or flashing members of the public.

Hi girlongirl (post#22) i feel for what you say, every word of it. In particular there's one sentence in your post that strikes me :

"Seriously, some straight men really need a psychiatrist- why such vile hate?"

What are psychiatrists for ? Basically, for helping people who have blown one or several fuses to re-insert themselves into society, so they can perform and function again like the social animal they're supposed to be. There are thousands of books on the subject and it sure is a fascinating one.

Now, what does society feed the brains of men as they feel the natural impulse to assert their identity as men ? Three things, which come chronologically in the following order :

1. roughly from age 0 to age 7... that to be a man is the opposite of being a baby ("come on, don't cry, you're a big guy, you're not a baby any more")

2. roughly from age 7 to age 13/14... that to be a man is the opposite of being a girl. Absurd as it may seem, this notion is hammered over and over again.

3. after age 14...that to be a man is the opposite of being a homosexual.

I'm trying here to summarize (and it's very frustrating) an absolutely brilliant book that was written in the 80s by Elisabeth BADINTER. The English version was published in New York in 1995 under the title "XY - on Masculine Identity" - ISBN 0231084358 (0-231-08435-8).

In this book, she and a group of her pupils at the College de France gave the results of years of research on the subject. It's clear, convincing... and terrifying, because it proves that, unlike feminine identity which is essentially based on the ONE POSITIVE notion of giving birth ie life... masculine identity is based on THREE NEGATIVE assertions. Men are led to believe that they are men not because they ARE this or that, but because they ARE NOT this, this and that.

So... My point is (you probably see it by now)... what men need the most is not so much a psychiatrist (whose normative role would be to socially re-assert their identity and therfore their homophobia!!) as a TOTALLY DIFFERENT EDUCATION.

As long as men continue to build their identity AGAINST babies, women and homosexuals, those three groups will be in trouble and brrr.... that's a lot of human beings...

I can't summarize such an extraordinary book in a few paragraphs so please don't jump to conclusions and throw a million "yes buts" at me. Do read that book if you can lay your hands on it. It is subtle, intelligent, comprehensive and never stupidly cocky over its theory line. Yes, of course, there are other influences, other impulses that help men to be "civilised", love their kids, love their wives and tolerate (lol) their gay neighbours, but deep inside (in their reptilian brain maybe?) they are plagued with the negative mindmines that were planted in them from day one.

I'd like to add one last line for today, a line that's worth exploring as well... The "negative tripod" is a fundamental part of every man's identity on this planet (except for some very rare and remote ethnic groups which function really differently) so of course, it includes gay men... ever wondered why homophobia was also very common among gay men ? yes it's an outrageous contradiction, but then so is our inbuilt "masculine identity".

I totally agree with Post #19 xiaoxingxing. I also think that the sentencing is fair for the three as 2 are juveniles while Muhammad Ridhwan was originally a bystander who joined in the attack later. He probably didn't cause the death of the "victim".

It is an unfortunate incident and too early to make any judgement on the fairness of the judicary system as the main players are yet to be sentenced.

As for the "victim", my sympathy to him but then, he kinda ask for it. There are so many venues for us gays to congregate, why be such a cheapo and sexually harass and challenged the manliness of the group of intoxicated straight guys. Humans behaves like a pack of animals when they are in a group and when they attack, it can be quite deadly.I always felt very ashame to be gay when I see toilet queens exposing themselves.

We need to clean up our backyard and not support such behaviour in public toilets.

Singapore is not many peoples favorite asian city state thats for sure!

our new generation now become worse. at the younger age now they were doing bad things, juvenile and crime even now make other people to death.

In a sane society the punishment for showing an adult your penis privately might be rejection (or laughter) and publicly would be social rejection or committal for mental treatment.

In the broader scheme of things it's no biggie.

Allowing people to defend murderous acts with a simple: "he upset me by showing me his privates" is ludicrously unjust.

In most countries we no longer recognise as a defense to rape: "She was wearing revealing clothing...therefore I was entitled to rape her".

Sadly the Singapore court did not dismiss this defense with the contempt it deserved and sentence these thugs to hate crime murder.

Why "hate crime"? Because an act against a person on the bsis of sexual orientation terrorises all people of sexual orientation. You see, who can even know if the defense is genuine? the so-called provoker is dead...and the defense is possibly the work of an attorney.

So I must walk the streets of Singapore with more caution than before...these murderers may be looking for any gay men. Their defense should be no defense - it makes no sesne and is a very easy post mortem fabrication.

These murderers should be murdered themselves, in the most horrifying ways possible.

Reading thru the posts below, I am surprised at how ready most writers are to believe the story as recounted by the people accused of murder.
Don't you know that defendants frequently lie or slant the evidence - especially when the deceased cannot contradict them?
The first lesson of good lawyering is to try to find an unanswerable defense for your client.
So, before you justify murder by straight guys (all of whom may not be straight) because someone offered them a form of pleasure they claim not to desire, remember the story is likely being presented in the best light for their defense.
That is what is so dangerous about allowing this kind of defense at all.
It is absurd that an undesired offer of sex (no matter how rude) deserves brutality. This is not the way of civilized society - call the police, sue someone for emotional distress, do one of many things, but do not kill the gay man for poor judgment.
A reduction in social homophobia, removing anachronistic laws like S.377, and sensitivity training for judges might help.
But whatever you feel...ask yourself why you do not question the story of the murderers.
I've been gay for many years and been to many countries and I don't believe these aggressive approaches to groups of young men by a single older gay guy are common. Yet this is a common defense when a gay man is beaten to death.

"Grievous hurt"? Is that all it is called when someone purposely calls others to join in beating a man to death?

You can bet if it were a straight woman beaten to death by gay men for showing her snatch, they would be hung!

But I cannot say I am surprised. Seems typical of Singapore in many ways. Sad for a country with so much to offer the world that the status and worth of all it's citizens is still not recognised and validated.

But how to tell young "straight" men that their reaction to a such a person is wrong when the message that is constantly sent to the "heartlanders" by "higher powers" is one of disgust, hatred and alienation?

Sad stuff.... but the world is full if it today. RIP Suhaimi. Did not know you but no one deserves to die in such a way.

Singapore is a homophobic society. In anyways, gays do not stand a chance in the judicial system and will always be the losers. But funny, Singapore has the cruisiest parks, pools, bars, public toilets, gyms and street corners for gay encounters in the world. While it is one of the smallest states, Singapore is probably the biggest closet. So don't be surprised if it stands as the hallmark of irony.

No wonder I have been there once and have no intenition to go there again ... sick country and sick law .. tenager is getting 3 months for vandalising cars and 18 months for killing someone .. no wonder so many singaporean are living abroad .. grow up people .. you suppose to be intelligent and smart .. not the barbaric nation !!!!

The death can't speak for himself can he?

Exactly what happened that night no one knows but one thing for sure, the victim can't share his side of the story. The accused words against the dead.

For all we know, it was a crime nothing to do with the victim being gay. Perhaps, the accused decided to use this excuse as their defense knowing SG's law against homosexuality.

The end of all this, someone died and suffering all around for the family of the victim and the accused.

Pray for the dead and that his soul rest in peace.

On another note, for a country that pride itself for being the most advanced, educated and wealthy, it is poor on every other aspect of humanity and equality.

headline - "birthday bash ends in (gay) bash". nobody deserves to die because they flashed their dick or even if they proposition for sex to someone who doesnt want it. MURDER IS MURDER.

tHis report sickens me, yet sadly is not surprising whne there is so much hate, and someone who is homosexual has little or no value placed on their lives. These yuong men are products of a society that condone the vilification of people who are different and homosexuals are an easy target. I also think that A gay man in a country where Homosexuality is not openly recognised let alone leagal, shoul also have some discernment as to who he may approach. This does not excuse the brutal, senseless and premeditated attack to cause a human being harm. Had this been a case of a 37 year old woman flashing her breasts or vagina at thses boys and propositioning them for sexual favours, what would have been the outcome one may ask. The laws and education of tolerance, respect and acceptance are not taught as virtues worth having when it comes to people and miniorities who are different. Homosexuality is still thought of as a sickness and an incideous lifestyle, yet we have always been there in society and will continue to do so. Singapore is quite backward, controlled and there is a false sense of security in their safe haven, but this is clearly not... Complacency is suicide, silence is to give permission. The sentence for dealing in drugs is more severe than that of taking a human life it seems. Shame, Shame, the bell tolls.

I am going to play devil's advocate since everyone seems ready to castrate these boys and then torture them to death, in a true mark of civilized society.

We are presented with a story that was written once by a presumably straight reporter at the Straits Times and then edited by a presumably gay individual for presentation on fridae. The only thing that is perfectly clear to me is that this article was posted on fridae so as to get the members of this site riled up and righteously angry (and have us coming back to this article over and over to post our comments and drive up advertising revenue... oops.) Without hearing direct testimony from any of the boys, without knowing what their mental states were that evening, we are all jumping on a bandwagon ready to pronounce these boys the worst humans to have walked the face of this earth.

The victim is clearly to be mourned, but this does not mean the boys are ready to be crucified. What if the victim was known by the police as someone who had been involved in prior flashing incidents? What if the victim was known to have had a history of mental disorder? What if twenty other boys suddenly came forth and testified that the victim had flashed all of them on occasion? What if a thirteen year-old boy came forth and testified that this victim had not only sexually assaulted him but touched him as well? What if Ahmad Nur Helmy (also a victim that night) had been sexually assaulted before in this manner and just snapped? We have a very incomplete picture, at best, of what happened that night, and almost no knowledge at all of the people in this story.

But hey, if you think the mark of a truly civilized society is to execute all of these kids, the 17 year-old one as well, I think the definition of "civilized" needs to be addressed. Perhaps in this column at a future date.

Well of course these people should be ppunished to the fullest extend of the law...... which in Singapore won't be much.... maybe a slap on the wrist. In some circles, they'll probably be cited as doing a community service.

On the other hand, anyone who exposes himself to an unknown group of 20 year olds and asks them if they'd like a blow job, is courting trouble. You can be sure though, that the one that was hitting him the hardest was the one that most wanted the blow job.

I know, to some, this is a treat, but man, those guys need to be gang raped and fist fucked in prison...

the kids should have just reported to the police ... not "kill" someone ... then again, kids these days think they are GOD! actually half of them are FOOLS!

If Suhaimi had looked like Aaaron Aziz, i'm sure the kids will say why not ! still, one of the boys should try a blow job from a gay man ... it's paradise ...

"What if the victim was known by the police as someone who had been involved in prior flashing incidents? What if the victim was known to have had a history of mental disorder? What if twenty other boys suddenly came forth and testified that the victim had flashed all of them on occasion? What if a thirteen year-old boy came forth and testified that this victim had not only sexually assaulted him but touched him as well? What if Ahmad Nur Helmy (also a victim that night) had been sexually assaulted before in this manner and just snapped?"

So what if the answers to any of the above questions are in the affirmative?

If you are so ready to disbelieve that what was reported in the media, why would you speculate that one of the perpetrators might have been sexually assaulted but kept silent instead of using that as a defence?

But as a poster mentioned earlier, maybe gay men who think it's safe to cruise and "flash" in Singapore might want to reconsider doing so...

No matter how bad the victim may be - assuming prior flashing or mental disorder - the 3 killers do not have a right to impose their own martial law. That's how self named "vigilantes" and "lynch mobs" do. They claim that they're doing a righteous thing, but the line between what's right and wrong is often blurred.

There were many alternative solutions to this flashing
1. Call the police
2. Say no and go away

By beating him up, it is a hate crime.This also indicates that the 6 of them have anger management issues. Who's to say that they won't blow up and commit another beating again? Another thing to note. They were 6 against 1. The victim was outnumbered. Isn't that bullying to me?

This may not warranty a death sentence, but they should be charged with manslaughter, and given imprisonment of up to 10 years (with maybe parole for good behavior). The sentencing is too light. I feel very sad.

They reject one man offer.Ended up Go rtc. Get more offer that cannot be rejected. GO RTC = End of future. It's just a youth prison, but the government like to make it sound more *CLASS AND ALL*. My friend who came out from rtc are becoming from bad to weird. As in real weird.

Anyway, the dead man also got fault. teenagers being violent is the fault of an adult. isn't it? =D

from the LGBT point of views, for sure we will say that the 6th were wrong. but i wonder why the man(suhaimi) offered sexual service to them. i wonder is this true? he was dead. should we trust the prosecutor's sentence? bashing ppl especially to death is definitely cant be forgiven. no matter how wrong( if the claimed is true) is the guy, they shouldnt done it that way.

To # 53, the questions I asked do matter. An affirmative answer to any of them would have surely weighed heavily in the sentence that the boys received. And in fact, judging by the "light" sentence that was handed down, there were facts that the police and the court knew about that we were not privy to.

Singapore is what is known as a high-context culture. In high-context cultures that include Korea and Japan, prosecutors and defense attorneys and judges often come together in a collaborative mindset to assess all the evidence that can be drudged up, including past histories and hearsay, to paint the broadest context possible. "Appropriate" sentences are handed down against this broad context. (The absence of pesky juries in Singapore makes this high-context juridical system work quickly and efficiently.)

In low-context countries such as the United States, we are not interested in broad backdrops, but rather isolated incidents. We do not permit hearsay as evidence. In many cases, past histories of victims are also inadmissible. The legal process is much more adversarial, with prosecutors and defense attorneys playing all sorts of games to hide evidence when it is advantageous to do so.

When the US Government vigorously protested the caning of Michael Fay, it was communicating a low-context message--that the punishment did not fit the single incident. When the Singaporean authorities went ahead and caned him, it was sending a very high-context message not only to its citizenry, but to the world--namely, this is not about the punishment of one boy who vandalized one car, but rather, about the need to maintain law and order in Singaporean society.

If this is a little difficult to grasp, think of it this way. When a Singaporean man and woman come together with the prospect of marriage before them, you better believe that lots of questions will be asked by the parents on both sides about each other's families. The parents do this to get a sense of the broad context. What kind of family did he grow up in? Who are his parents? What do they do? In America, though we do ask these questions, marriage tends to be a more low-context affair, allowing the individuals to focus on each other's merits without getting overly bogged down in family histories.

I am sometimes amazed by how quick Singaporeans are to bite the hand of the government that has created one of the most transparent, orderly societies the world has ever known. The sentences handed down in Singapore may seem extreme in some cases, but at least you know what you are up against when in Singapore. Try living in a country where justice is often arbitrary, where OJ Simpsons can get away with murder because of high-priced lawyers. The grass is always greener on the other side of the ocean.

If you bought the Singapore is truly transparent pitch, then why don't you also believe that Singapore/Singaporeans truly believe in meritocracy in all aspects of life?

2 of the guys were 17 yo? why were they allowed into the pub? why did the pub allow them in?

The victim is a BODOH SIAL...condemned idiot. He died and he DESERVE to die...looking for sex in straight place...not like there is no gay places to go to. he want to take risk and seduce straight men....he desrve to get whacked...if he die...that is the risk. NO PITY here. He deserve what he got...DEAD!

Noone deserves to die, BrownHard!

I'm assuming that the boys working at Fridae were out last night, and haven't shown up to work yet to have this post deleted, but I think they should delete it...this is neither CLEAN nor APPROPRIATE!

In my view, I think Suhaimi he DESERVED to died! Such a prevent! Hey, how can a guy can behave like a animal. Offer this kind of service to strangers in the public, end up kena beaten till died???? Padan dia!!! He asked for it! Is totally no standard & self dignity!!! Gay man also must hv self respect & dignity. Be responsible, whatever you do that's always a PRICE to pay! (I dun mean $). Hello friend, if got problems... pergi la seek for psychiatric. Especially like those ppl who like to expose their private part or pictures to others or strangers are those who lack of self confident. To me, even I'm a part-time model. I hv a good figure but I won't do that. Haha...if one day, ppl come to know abt your ugly secret....That's the end! your family, relatives & friend will also lose face. Just like Edison... harm so many ppl.. God, pls take this kind of jerk away fr this peaceful world. They are destroying the mother nature flow... WORLD PEACE & I love you all...

No one can decide who dies,and we should not kill people but give them a second chance.
those guys who killed him are real monsters, deep deep inside their heart, they have the desire to kill, and they just find an excuse to kill a man for real.

wow......
Posts 60 and 62 are indeed very creepy...
The expression "deserve to die" is characteristic in all forms of fanaticism, so grandiax (post 63) you must be aware that you're wasting your time using reason to answer these maniacs. It's kind of like explaining Mozart to a toad.
These guys hate themselves immensely, and because they hate themselves they hate the whole world too.

Is that the maximum sentence in Singapore they can give?

What ever it is , I think no one deserve to take another persons life. Well it's foolish of the victim to do such a thing in a so called straight place. He paid a price and a very heavy one. Too bad :(

Let those wannabes take this as a lesson .

gymhotbod (post 65) you're the one who's giving us "a very bad name" by making statements that are usually in the mouths of nazis, hateful bigots from every religion, and the like. Shame on you for being so ... ashamed of what you are.

yveserwan (post #68)

I am not here to say killing is right. Please clear your muddy mind and set it on a rational mode. Here is a deviant victim provoking other men.

If you are in Rome, do what the Romans do. The fact that you overly defend for a deviant behaviour shows that it is acceptable in your so-called free country. And by your silence to such deviant behavviours, it proves that you are endorsing such antaganistic behaviours. And this is Singapore and it involves Asian values. You can flash everywhere and solicit sex anyhow and that is your business but make sure you dont provoke others and this is what I call RESPECT. An initial rejection to the earlier offer is already a chance for the victim to disappear. The victim is a daredevil to mess around in a straight man world. In case you dont know about Singapore culture, it is even risk to stare another man.

The victim unfortunately is a bad model for gay community here. It is a lesson to be learned.

I didn't know the gay community needs a model.

Pray tell what sort of deviant is he? The gay kind?

Singapore and asian values? Hmmm ....

I guess scantily clad bitches just have it coming.

Different news reports on this contradict each other, including as to what this victim is claimed to have done to provoke the attack, so maybe the facts are not so straightforward as people assume. And having pleaded guilty to a much lesser charge, the attackers don't face cross-examination on their stories.

The attackers may well have had some provocation, and possibly everyone had been drinking, but to imagine what the victim's version of events might have been, let's take out the Defence's story of provocation and see what's left:

1) Two members of the gang are loitering outside a nightclub late at night in a mall with a reputation for illicit sex. They have a conversation with the victim, during which they ask him if he's gay. They all go into the club.

2) Later a member of the gang is loitering in the toilets "combing his hair". He has a conversation with the victim. There is no violence at this stage.

3) This person fetches the rest of the gang. They ask the victim again if he's gay. He runs away.

4) They hunt him down through the mall and beat him to death.

From this perspective it could be gay-baiting, which is not uncommon. Without a proper trial we'll never know.

P.S.

Two things that don't add up for me though are:

- if this guy really was exposing himself and offering oral sex, why did the gang need to ask him repeatedly if he was gay before chasing him and beating him to death? Wouldn't that have been kind of obvious?

-Why did the guy in the toilet not react violently immediately if he was so provoked?

I would like to use this incident as a wake up call for everyone. Although the outcome of this case is way to drastic, I dont want to put the blame on these kids.

Flashing himself is one of the most vulnerablke thing and we should be aware of the perils...

The moral of this story? Don't solicit AH BENGS unless you are a good figher who can knock the crap out of punk AH BENGS! Oh Well, LIVE(or should I say, DIE) and LEARN!

Do we need to resort to such violence with such simple issue???
Can't we just shoo the guy away if we find his behavior offensive? Why can't they just decline his 'service' verbally n move on? **scratch head**

These chaps so young, yet so angry! Hmmm...

18-3 years? Who d fuck is d judge? Shame shame shame!!

i find it hard to believe that most of the posts actually condone the brutal murderous killing of a fellow human being who may or may not have been a little deranged........and what the hell of a country that punishes people who carry out these acts to a smack on the hand, and hangs others for being addicted to some chemical substance..... a very sick society indeed

Those posts who condone the perversion of flasher cum sex solicitior, you are really sick and no wonder the image of 'sick' gays perceived by the straights is not totally unfair because of blacksheep like you. Nobody wants the outcome of death but it is about a 37 years old adult gay preying on a group of mixed teenagers and grown-ups who are going through a period of identity searching.

READ the case before you jump into silly conclusion. If you cannot even do that, it only reflects foolishness and not able to understand the crux of the problem. See who antaganizes the whole situation before blaming the group for reacting to a persistent sexual advance.

Not all gays (not to mention straights) will react the way you would when other gay flashes himself. Perhaps you would be aroused and end up having sex in a cubicle.

If I were one of the groups, I would have been pissed off too. The only difference is I would tell the victim off or walked away.

And I am going to be crude this time - the victim is seriously asking for trouble! He pushes his own limit. Or perhaps he pushes his limit and hope the group would 'gang rape' him but he has miscalculated.

This is going out of hand. We must not overlook the fact that somebody was murdered. We can obviously debate whether or not the victim's act was provocative (and I am certain that we will reach different conclusions), but let's leave this for the court. Just don't tell me we cannot agree that irrespective of the victim's objectionable act those boys committed a crime by bashing the man senseless.

Fair enough, you might be offended by the man's advances, but what exactly in being confronted as such warrants violence, group violence to boot? This is silly. Don't fall on red herring, boys. Whatever the man did, he shouldn't have been beaten up to death. The obvious route for complaints the boys should've taken was through the police.

The boys killed the man, an act which is unlawful and morally reprehensible. What is left to dispute?

#81 yuventius

No body is falling on red herring as jail sentences have been given for the crime commited by the group. But some of the people here are not happy with the judiciary system.

Most of the posts here never think who start the problem and some even shamelessly support the victims's provocative behaviour. They only want to nail the group heavily for the death of a gay man.

This is karma......even Boy George has to be careful when he is cruising in the toilet.

i am surprise that non offer a prayer for his departed soul, afterall he is a human being although he made a mistake. we all err whether straight or gays or bi and you know it.its sad to read comments that targets fellow ajs "that you lack the capability to read and understand" although you are one yourself. who amongst you have not made a mistake or sin can cast the first stone.

Agree: Manslaughter and Murder is not the same. Manslaughter is an accidental killing. Murder is not. I think the boys must be terrified that they realize their violence killed a man, and that life is so fragile. I can imagine happily celebrating birthday of a friend and got harassed. The dead man has no need to learn any lesson since he is dead, but these young lives have to shoulder this lesson that most of you won't even need to go through. Certainly, the judge knows what he is doing. Or do you think you make a better judge?

may his departed soul rest in peace Amen.

To xiaoxingxing and gymhotbod:

I find the killing hardly reactionary, hence I did not call it "manslaughter." It's hard for me to imagine that, in the midst of their anger drive, the boys didn't have in mind to actually kill the man. But this is up for debate.

A man died, that's the end of the story. The fact is that the boys are guilty, as I think you agree -- and I'm not here to debate the court's verdict as well. What I meant by "red herring" in my previous post was that there seemed to be a tendency to link the victim's public toilet escapade with the boys' reaction. It just bothers me that we discuss the victim's alleged misdeed as if that is somehow a catalyst for violence.

My point is that while I agree that the man's act was perhaps provocative, I fail to see how it provokes violence. It might irked me when I'm in my good days. Or if I'm not having such a good day, I might dash in anger. But I won't, nor should I, beat him up senseless.

In understanding this case, we must also take into account the sociology of group and psychology of individuals. Some youngsters tend to mismanage their anger negatively like a runaway horse or an erupting volcano. As individuals they may be more tolerant towards the victim, but as a group, the group pressure and dynamics is a strong force to boost up the guts to teach the victim a lesson.

Now, the Judiciary system will also look into the mitigating factors of these impulsive youngsters. They still have a long journey to go and this regretful manslaugher will become a shadow in their life. Some of them may be living with flashback or post-traumatic distress syndrome if proper counseling is not rendered.

Bias.
If a straight men was killed by a group of gay men when he got into a fight when he called gays "FAGGOT" ...and the gay man who killed him...you guys would blindly side him and wish he get lighter sentence. Stating that the straight man was homophobic etc reasons. If the gay man who do the kill is good looking and cute, ALOT of you would rally to his support.
Here a gay man went to a straight joint asking for TROUBLE and he got it...risk his life for sex..when he could go to a gay sauna, gay disco or gay karaoke to do his gay acts and at most the men who don't like him would shove him off or laugh or bitch at him..but he would live. NO...he went to a straight joint and took a risk and lost his life. I think he is VERY STUPID to take such risk. And he got what he deserve and may this be a warning to other dumb gay men who believes in turning straight men gay...would you like for people to turn gay men straight? Have respect for other's preferance and you can demand respect for yours.

Now I have idiots who condemn me for stating something that is so simple...you do wrong, you get hell. Say I am scary and hate myself...I am sexy and I love myself. I just don't wish to read about gays being stupid nor do I want to read about straight men coming to gay places and causing trouble. People die of disease and accident...don't die because of stupidity.

The most pernicious enemy of a gay male is often a het male rather than women.
Even if your heartthrob boasts of a 99- inch banana, do check if he sleeps with women before you peel it.

It's just sad that a life has been lost. Take it as a lesson. A bitter one. Stay away from trouble.

Play in your own turf. Lets be honest. Even amongst ourselves we sometimes get so pissed off with our own kind when they flash at us at our own turf , what else to a bunch of hot straight boys when you play in their turf ??

It's sad the victim paid a price for his foolishess, lets learn from it and move on. may he rest in peace and bring strength to all those in need of it.

My 2 cents :)

Reading this article it has confused me, not the much the content or what the article is trying to convey but what really went on between the lines.

The whole minutiae of the deed appears quite haphazardly made up. The grammatical styling again does not support that much the genuity of the article, even if it is ad verbatim relaid from the court.

What went on really!? Does this article cover up that perhaps a friendly 'feminine' man was just seeking a chat, but was seen as an easy victim for a birthday present prank for macho fun to chase away the boredom of middle class spoiled men? But to ease the nation's conservative sensitivity the court and media made out that the main culprit that erupted this violence is nothing more than a depraved gay man. Or am I just seeing around me nothing more than homophobic conspiracies?
It sounds so farfetched perhaps for me that a gay men would sollicit gay sex so publicly in a straight stronghold ...
But then you do know that the most homophobic violent geezers are often nothing more (again 'nothing more') than selfhating gay men themselves (testified by many gay friends of mine who redeemed themselves by finally accepting themselves and coming out).

But my questioning/scrutinizing, may it be justified or not, PALES, away that at the end a human life has been taken away regardless of what the circumstances may have been. May his soul rest in peace!

Reading this article it has confused me, not the much the content or what the article is trying to convey but what really went on between the lines.

The whole minutiae of the deed appears quite haphazardly made up. The grammatical styling again does not support that much the genuity of the article, even if it is ad verbatim relaid from the court.

What went on really!? Does this article cover up that perhaps a friendly 'feminine' man was just seeking a chat, but was seen as an easy victim for a birthday present prank for macho fun to chase away the boredom of middle class spoiled men? But to ease the nation's conservative sensitivity the court and media made out that the main culprit that erupted this violence is nothing more than a depraved gay man. Or am I just seeing around me nothing more than homophobic conspiracies?
It sounds so farfetched perhaps for me that a gay men would sollicit gay sex so publicly in a straight stronghold ...
But then you do know that the most homophobic violent geezers are often nothing more (again 'nothing more') than selfhating gay men themselves (testified by many gay friends of mine who redeemed themselves by finally accepting themselves and coming out).

But my questioning/scrutinizing, may it be justified or not, PALES, away that at the end a human life has been taken away regardless of what the circumstances may have been. May his soul rest in peace!

hey can i suck u?

No, fuck off!

You do not kill someone for offering to suck u.
Whether u r str8, bi, gay or watever.....

Sammi, what about this?

Hey can I suck you
No
Please, I will make you happy
I say No
May be I will just jerk you
Excuse me! Didnt I tell you NO?
Can I just .....
Can you get lost?

he'd probably brought it upon himself.
may he rest in peace.

but, lighter sentence for murder?
*shakes head*
we're talking about a human here. not animals.
we were given a brain for a reason.

This is just pure homophobia.. These uneducated people.. really needa be educated more..

Agree with you gymhotbod.
Clean our own backyard !!!

Have you seen how we sometimes behaves and treat the less fabulous ones even in our own turf ??? It's sad and it's true.

One word for us gay people ....not many of us are very forgiving with our words and act. We tend to see the world around us from a coloured lens and will accept only the beautiful. We have no mercy for the less endowed and the less fabulous. Period. My 2 cents :)

I am guilty of it myself and am trying to change :)

max. 10 years in jail for killing? that's one key point enough for the country to rethink about.

Why were the charges downgraded? It's murder pure and simple. And I'm appalled that 17 year olds can commit these sort of atrocities. Even when I was 17 and angsty, I don't think I would have done such things.

Why did that M. Sufian restrain his friend, help the guy up, only to kick him and attack him.

All I can say is.. give them the maximum sentence - it's plainly not severe enough.

The case is - not whether the victim "deserved" it. The case is - a human being died - from being beaten to death by youths of Singapore.

This is turning out to be like the movie "The Accused" with Jodie Foster. Did she "deserved" to be raped?

People here in Singapore are so numbed to the idea of rights to exist as human beings. There seems to be a hierarchy of existence - that some people deserve what they get.

This ruling is saying something: that there is a pre-judgement on some types of people - some types of people "deserved" it. Aren't we all supposed to be equal? Condone this ruling - condone this judicairy system - condone this government - condone this country.

Singaporeans - you deserve what you get.

NO POINT talking to some of you die hard gay rights priss pots. If you think the world will give in to gay rights...gay wrong doings....you obviously forgot, we are the MINORITY.
WRONG is WRONG....he was picking on underage guys for sex and pushed for it even when he was making an idiot of himself and giving gay men a bad name. Now he got the wrath of youths fueled by today's hero attitude of "KILL THE FAGGOT LAH...bloody chow ah quah..." the who cares attitude which is glorified as COOL....so he died.
What are you readers going to do? CRY? You think your country's legal system cares. You want to hold a riot and make this matter worse?

THINK about it. Learn from it...and be wiser and move on.

Brownhard/gymhotbod:

You're like saying that as long as some one does me a wrong, I have the right to do the same wrong?

I don't think it's right for that dead man to have exposed himself or tried to cruise those youths. But your comments seem to condone their beating someone to death. Whether the dead person was gay or not is not the issue here. The issue is that a person was murdered. It's not about gay rights.

I think their counsel (if they had one) put in a plea of some sort to lower the sentence on account of various factors.

I'm presuming their (relative) youth saved them from being hung.

As for the other 3, jail, a caning, a fine. I guess that's all they get.

Gymhorbod:
Very impressive rhetoric, gd explanations-or shall i say justifications?- and oh! how very stupid of gays to ruffle with the hetero men's feathers!
Just keep in mind my dear, at the end of the day you are only human...when you need help, sympathy or someone to lend a hand, don't be surprised if bad karma will come back to haunt you for yr smug callousness.

Clearly, both sides are at fault here, though in different ways.

The gay man of course was stupid to flash at those guys, especially after they had already turned him down. Even if he shouldn't have been killed, at least he certainly deserved a beating, IMO. People have a right NOT to have strangers flashing at them, and especially not after having turned them down.

There are many members of the gay community who don't mind making complete fools of themselves in the name of sexual liberation. Unfortunately, in the process they let down the whole gay community. Their behaviour conditions the straight community into genuinely believing that gays are nothing but a bunch of degenerates ceaselessly engaged in bestial acts.

This perception is further reinforced by the images displayed on the front pages of popular gay websites. How many gay websites look respectable at first sight? Practically all gay websites have pictures of genitals on the front page, and pictures of naked men engaged in anal sex. That's the FIRST IMPRESSION the gay community chooses to project about itself.

The question we should ask ourselves is, WHY is that the ONLY image we project about ourselves? Is it impossible for a gay website to ALSO include pictures of men actually wearing clothes and engaged in simple everyday activities, like playing on a beach with some friends, having a conversation with a friend over tea, and so on? Don't we guys actually do these things too? Aren't they an important part of our lifestyles, similar to that of straight people? Or, will the gay community refuse to use such websites because they are "uncool"? If so, I'd say they all deserve to be beaten to death like that nitwit got in Singapore.

Having said that, there is certainly a high level of unfairness in that kind of killing. Society is not just male dominated; it is dominated by the straight male. A straight man takes it as his birthright to make passes at women. In many cases, the man persists long and hard, even after the woman has repeatedly rebuffed him. Sexual harassment of women is widespread in the workplace. Using an analogy, would it be okay for the women to get together and beat the straight man to death?
NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! The straight men would be horrified even at just this question.

Why? What's the difference? After all, don't these women feel just as threatened by these straight men, as these straight men claim to be when gay men make passes at them?
In fact, don't women feel even MORE threatened, being the physically weaker sex?

The reason is, straight men subconsciously regard women as free-for-all. After all, didn't God design men and women like locks and keys? Isn't the key designed to go into the lock? Rape of women is therefore viewed as an accomplishment, a vindication of one's manhood and virility.

In today's society, therefore:

It is okay for a straight man to beat a gay man to death for making a pass at him.

But

It is NOT okay for a woman to beat a straight man to death for making a pass at her.

And that's what's wrong with society. The values it professes are nothing but hypocrisy, tailored for the convenience of straight men.

We can see that the straight men most likely to enjoy rape are also the most homophobic. These straight men spend 24/7 thinking about raping women. Therefore, by projection, they imagine that gay men must also be thinking 24/7 about raping men. This thought makes them feel threatened at the very sight of gay men. And, the gay community only manages to heighten these unfounded fears through its foolish conduct, decadent websites and other such things.
We don't just ask for it; we beg for it.

I wonder if this sad episode will prompt the singapore government into changing their thinking and attitude towards gay people.
Im wondering if there was not so much bad publicity and the sg Governments stubborn resistance to repealing the law (377) and all the hoo-ha by certain government's ministers publicly propagating henious myths about homosexuality, that young persons ( such as those who commited this crime) would have such hatred?

We will never know.

This might be a might be a lesson on many levels.
As 'girlongirl' (post#109) mentions, Karma is always around the corner for everybody, not only for those who commit such crimes, but for those who propagate, encourage, and turn a blind eye to intolerance of human rights ( in this case gay rights) by whatever means they feel can accomplish their agenda.

Many have culpability, not the least those in the higher echelons of power.

i think something is fishy here. how do we know the story is true with the only other person who knows the truth is dead
seems to me that the group could have gotten into a fight for no real reason and made upt he story sound better.

Seriously anyone who knows orcahrd towers knows its a hetereo hoooker haven, not a gay place

Like others I do not have the full story and I don't fully understand why these boys (yes killers they are but some of them are just boys and the difference of a few days or weeks between 17 and 18 does not make a man of you) were all in/near to a public toilet at 4:00 am on a Thursday night? I would like to warn gay guys not to cruise public toilets, for years we have know the acronym AYOR - it stands for At Your Own Risk - for good reasons, they are dangerous places where the 'cruisers' can be vulnerable to attack or arrest. With gay bars, saunas and the internet there is less reason to frequent these places (apart from in Penang obviously).

Sadly the deceased was a 37 year old man trying to pick up 17 year old boys in public toilets. Most 17 year old boys (especially straight boys who do form the majority of the population) do not want to be propositioned by 37 year old men.

What would have happened if these boys had done the correct thing and called the Police? I'm damn sure the deceased would have received a lot more than 18 months to 3 years in a place of reform.

...cont'd

It is socially wrong what the victim did but clearly it does NOT warrant a death sentence from such fatal violence. There's a very unsettling trend of recklessness happening in Singapore and it will get worse. Slowly but surely, it will regress to 3rd world administration/social lifestyle; never mind all the for show F1 races, IR, just an excuse for ahem, no comments, yada yada yada. The world is watching and has stopped shaking its head..zzz.

Sad sad tragedy.

Amazing...haha....it screams blatant HYPOCRISY and STUPIDITY on those who self profess holier than thou mentality. Strip away all the bull-shit rhetoric and focus on the crime and it's pure and simple-it's MURDER, not manslaughter. There was no defence to kill to survive, it was offensive. Duh?

I have engaged some here b4 many moons ago (other topics), on those who claim to be gay but always taking the other side to put our own kind down no matter what. Pointless to debate with these retards. They are fundamental retards.
It's the syndrome of the white thinking delusional black housekeeper nigger in a whiteman's household, calling his/her own cotton picking slaves, niggers. These are the most dangerous. These are the purveyors of false and evil propaganda pandering to the power majority. Beware. They would sell their own mother for a song if they have to toll the line. Larry Craig, where are you?!

cont'd..(below)

There's no such crime as manslaughter in Singapore. That's an English thing.

I don't know what's worse...the mind-numbing homophobia so obvious in singapore and malaysia or the moralizing self-hatred of some gay guys there. A man has been murdered. Needlessly. Grotesquely. It's simple. And it's sickening that anyone in a civilized society could rationalize such violence as justifiable or deserved. If you choose to believe the self-serving excuses of the killers (as did the court in the absence of any corroborating evidence) it's manlaughter. If you suspect that their story is a simple contrivance to avoid the death sentence, it's murder. Yet it doesn't really matter. Even if some desperate queen flashed his willy in a public loo at 4am it can in no way be promoted as a justification for what occured. And for me, it's mind-boggling that any self-respecting human being (gay or straight) would use this forum to argue otherwise and to use this incident as a platform for lecturing on sexual morality. And for the guy who said that "we gays are always a step below the normal human mentality", please note that we are a step above, not below. It's our responsibility to challenge the irrationality, intolerance, hypocrisy and injustice of those less enlightened societies in which some of us must live.

Thanks pheramones (post#119) it's good to see that some people here have reason in their brain and a conscience in their hearts. I wrote similar things (albeit not so well as you) and got viciously attacked as a result, by guys who seem to think it's normal to kill a guy because he shows his "willy" to young straight men. I happen to think that the only sane reaction on their part would have been to laugh, but then i wasn't brought up in a neo-totalitarian micro-state where education is akin to subtle brain-washing and where severe blows to basic human rights come disguised as "asian values"...

This is a total disgrace, reflecting deep flaws in the Singaporean justice system.

To believe that it is reasonable to have an 18 month sentence for beating a man to death is appalling. A total disgrace.

So killing one fag is 18 months - killing 2 must be 3 years. Why not just go for an even dozen and you will be out in 18.

Sends a great signal ...

Well, i might say that it's a lesson to learn. Too bad that he has to go.

To GAYS out there, this shows that it's so stupid of you to look for SEX in the public. WHAT THE HELL that's in your mind? TOO DESPERATE?

Well, if u are, pls go to the 'designated area' - gay clubs, spa, etc. GOSH!

Well, if you want the public to give GAYS a little respect, then GAY COMMUNITY have to 'behave'.

I've seen those OVER THE TOP + ATTENTION SEEKERS kinda GAYS. And it really turns off. I still don't understand why you need to tell the ENTIRE WORLD that you are proud to be GAY. There's no need guys.

We dun even see those straight guys who wanna tell teh ENTIRE WORLD that they are MACHO SHIT etc. Juz behave as normal will do - no matter whether u are GAY, LESBIAN, STRAIGHT, IDIOTS, etc.

I hope u guys get what i'm trying to say.

ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS.

But what i see in GAYS is that its louder in both ACTION & WORDS. You don't need that to create attention. I have a pool of gay friends who behave normal like a straight guys and NO, they are not closets etc. And they gain much more respect than those attention seekers.

Hope PLU CITIZENS will change and gain respect in future - if u don't wanna end up sad or dead.

eh. this report doesn't specify that dead person's sexual orientation, labelling him for gay might be overstated. the offering of oral sex might be those six's idea to insult that man. why would a gay go to Orchard Tower, which is apparently very straight and might well be considered a seedy place for we luxury-loving population. there are "proper" places for the dead man to go to, right?

from this if that dead person is gay, he might have himself to blame; if not then this might be a story made up by whoever so as to get society's acceptance and to reduce penalty out of this. by any standard this does show how homophobic SG is, as if they don't exist in SG except everywhere outside of the island. indeed a tragedy.

Flashing your dick at people does not warrant a death sentence, at least not in Singapore.

Sure, our live styles involve pornography and gay websites. And the point is...? What's this got to do with beating someone to death?

And in any case, the straight lifestyle also involves pornography and adult-finders websites.

Be realistic. People love sex, people love porn. But this has got nothing to do with the issue at hand - which is a guy getting beaten to death by a group of 6 youngsters. His age also has nothing to do with it.

Do you mean that a 37 year old man would have deserved it, while a 21 year old would not?

There's inherently a lot of illogical statements in your argument.

AND yeah, we're debating here (just like you are, GHB) because it's a public article inviting our comments. Not because it's glamorous.

Yet it seems that whatever is being said here would not penetrate to the more opinionated mind(s). I'm just glad that most of us seem to be on the same page about justice, and only a very select few propagates illogical hate.

Sigh, there u go again Gymhotbod, you seem to think more than a tad too highly of yourself, don't you? NEVER in one single sentence did I even indicate I am worried for YOU (of all ppl hahaha), for heaven's sake, I'm only stating facts pure & simple. Hope this clarifies it.

rorlmao...I've tried simplifying things for you, but I can see it's redundant. So let me be more straighforward: gymhotbod pls, mind yr manners & use yr brains to THINK instead of talking down other people all the time. You like to say stupid gay perverts deserve every single bit of the bashing they receive for approaching straight men...well then, so do you for continually flaunting yr vainglorious stupidity in yr rebuts instead of LISTENING to we are actually trying to say. We did acknowledge the foolishness of Suhaimi, there are
many perverted gays around, there's no denial of that. But then so is Joseph Fritzl & billions of other hetero paedophiles!!!!! Shameful gay things???
Obviously you've never heard of Edison Chen lol.
I could go on & on rebutting yr more-than-offensive fallacies point-by-point, but really it's pointless stooping to yr level, so there.
And oh, thank you for letting the whole world know you never mix with us 'militants'- at least you are considerate in making this clear.

Weekday (post #124) thanks to you too for your very articulate, clear and sensible contribution.

when you write "I'm just glad that most of us seem to be on the same page about justice, and only a very select few propagates illogical hate"... you do realize that the "select few" in question may be "few" but are nonetheless VERY vocal, loud, rude, irrational and determined to get their hateful ideas home ? watch how 'girlongirl' tries courageously to reason with gymhotbod, who is obviously totally impermeable to reason, so there again i think that all of us here who are concerned with justice, humanity, understanding etc, are just wasting our time using actual arguments with people who only "think" in stereotyped cliches. Personally, I'm giving up on this one, but THANKS again to all of you Don Quixotes here who still think that reason, justice, understanding, kindness etc will somehow prevail in this world...

Ohhohohoho lolol I can't stop laughing.

gymhotbod you hit the nail on the head. We need to clean out as many of you homosexuals as we possibly can.

Kill them all since they're so nasty and dirty and unlike us clean people. Heil Hitler to you!

I forgot to contribute this line:

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

Btw, R.I P Suhaimi, sorry for all the mindless noise generated over petty trifles.

gymhotbod ... you are one entertaining character ... I am starting to wonder why you have so much hate ... so much anger ... brimfull of angsts ... were you raped? hmmm ... pity

I'm imagining situations in your childhood that could have caused such a disenfranchised outlook on people ...

And just so you know, your bigoted use of the term 'third world' doesn't make your shit smell nicer ...

you hate the marginalized, and you always side with the strong, the victors, the men in uniform ... I'm guessing your dad was in the military or with the police, and you find it sexy being bossed around ...

you condone and emulate the self-centered teen-agers who instead of calling the police, thought it was way cooler to murder the criminal ... Civilization means not taking the law in your own hands ... because if you do, you're just plain stupid ... that's what gets you to jail ...

But then again, the world is still fair ... you know why? ... Because the world produced so few of you ... perhaps a handfull ... but a noisy handful, I have to say

An enquiry about the post from 'girlongirl' (post #127)... Who is Edison Chen ?

I cannot believe the amount of homophobic bigotry from those who should know better, those who are victims of it themselves if they just opened their eyes. Those moralising gay men who have justified a man being KICKED to death in a homophobic attack think they are above such bigotry themselves because they pose as 'moral' gay men. Homophobes don't care what your morals are, you have sex with a man you are immoral and if a gang attacks you and your partner simply for being gay they would use the same justification that you do for these young thugs.
What you fail to justify is the failure of the law in this case. A life was taken. The charge should be manslaughter at least. The fact that the victim was gay is the significant factor. I can find no other instance in a civilised society where a life was taken and the defendants were merely charged with "voluntarily causing grievous hurt".
In this case there was every reason for them to be charged with murder. The attack was premeditated, excessive to the point that life could be endangered. This wasn't a case of a guy lashing out in anger and someone dying accidentally. The facts do not justify the attack at all. The victim did not even persistently pester any of the men. He approached two of them in the pub and they said no. He approached a different two in the toilet and they said no. At no point were they at risk of anything more than being offended. No society can survive if people are kicked to death just because they offend someone and no civilised society allows it, or should do. It was only after this that Ahmad went and got the others and they WENT BACK to confront him (how brave of him). They planned to attack him, to punish him for daring to threaten their sexuality. But according to the moralists, that is OK, the mere fact that most people are able to reject sexual advances without resorting to violence seems to escape you. Women have to do it all the time, but they don't find it necessary to kick their male sex pests to death and if they did you can bet they would be charged with murder.

The fact was this was a gay victim and what this appalling travesty of justice says is, as such, his life has less value and he deserved to die. Just imagine would you say the same thing, and more importantly, would the justice system in Singapore say it, if the victim had been a woman who made sexual advances to a group of gay men who then kicked her to death ?

Lastly why bring paedophilia into this ? (and gymhotbod you are 45, you are deluding yourself if you think that any paedophile would approach you in a toilet) These were young men not children, they were in a pub - an adult environment, not a schoolyard. They were adults and they had a choice how to react. They chose to attack this man because he was gay, if it had been an unattractive woman they would not have done so, it was a homophobic attack. In the West it would have been recorded as a hate crime and they would have faced manslaughter at least.

PS gymhotbod - I find your views even more offensive than those guys would have found being offered a blowjob and flashed at, so is it oK if I and 5 mates come round and kick you to death ?

...con'td

PS: And to you gymwhorebod, if u think for a moment that you can go on using your ill gotten profanity to abuse the sanctity of a precious life lost, on what is right and wrong, just becos you think you can here, think again. Your miserable lonely no life profile is already so clear here for all to see. Your ugliness is payback enough. I'm sure of it..:) Bye bye loser kampong girl.
Hate that dress you have on today. Go flash it at Orchard Towers. There may be still a few more of your own kind to pump up your swollen brain further. What?? u dun even have a **** to flash..tsk.tsk...go buy one at Orchard Towers, I hear they sell rubber ones (no China melamine- tested) zzzz..:)
Roger out!

Man...so much loser mentality in such a small cunt brain gymwhorebod or whatever new nick you choose to disguise yourself under with to do battle with others. The writing style reminds me so much of the other combative good4nothing losers; Jason TKK and some Kampong girl (forgetable nick). YAWN...zzz...It's in their nature to incite controversy to bring attention to themselves. Ignore them, they are fundamental retards, kampong queens at best.

I made it very clear earlier; you dun debate with a delusional white thinking nigger housekeeper, you dun negotiate with a terorist.

Bravo to Slytherine, girlongirl, Weekday, PnCGWMen....U have your hearts and heads in the right places. God Bless.

con'td (below)

Although it's not always easy to follow gymhotbod's often inarticulate rants, I'm beginning to feel sorry for him. Soundly squashed by the likes of girlongirl, slytherine, yveserwan, jammyboi and sfphoenix. It's intellctual manslaughter. Shame on you, girl and sly and yves and jammy etc. No need to punish him so brutally with clear thoughts and common sense. 20 lashes of sound Singapore justice for each of you! After all, poor old gymhotbod (sic) was just flashing his small mind. Sure sure, maybe it's very unwise of him to exhibit his mean-spiritedness here but the scorn dumped on him is way too much. But hey, I just noticed how many posts he made. Quite a busy little flasher he is. Even quoting Buddha...or was it Confucius. I got another old saying he might like to add to his collection: "Empty cans make the moist noise". Not Confucius though. Happy rattling, gymhotbod!

GHB #130: I wasn't referring to the sentences of the boys when I talked about age. I was referring to your remarks about seniors preying on young boys.

That's why I asked if you meant young boys preying on young boys would not have deserved the same treatment as the 37 year old murder victim - which was being beaten to death. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

#140: I am not a harsh person, I don't think the 17 year olds should hang. Then again, I also don't think that age should be an excuse for younsters to make severe mistakes that affect other people's lives.

You must realise that they are not being hanged. Rather, they are being sentences to 18 months and 3 years of footdrill, counselling, education etc. Sound more like serving the army than a sentence.

Moreover, this is the FIRST case of its kind in Singapore. It is well known that most first cases are usually judged and sentenced severely to prevent other similar cases in the future. A maximum of 3 years in a reformative centre is hardly severe. They send kids there for much less these days.

Your remarks about them being 17 and in secondary school or JC simply sounds like an excuse. They were drinking in a pub at 4am at Orchard Towers. Sounds like more like delinquents to me.

Your next point about their actions being provoked is yet another example of your deepseated biasness against the 37 yr old gay victim.

What do you mean by their actions being provoked? When I was 17 I never went around beating people up just coz I was 'buay song' with them. I knew the implications and the ramifications and I behaved responsibly. You sound like kids in kindergarten who tell their teachers ''He hit me first so I hit him back'.

Lastly, our freakiness, if it is indeed freakiness is NOT an excuse for killing. Nothing is, except in self defense.

I tire of this argument with you; I realise it is difficult to talk reason with you due to your very biased opinions and I shall stop. But one more thing: stop using the term Ah Qua. It is very offensive.

Civilised humans do not commit murder over such matters. I'm not sure I plan to visit Singapore ever until they get their act together there.

I read the article with great sadness and all the comments posted here. I have just one thing to say to gymhotbod: Shut The F.U.C.K up! You empty your empty brain for all to see and offend so many senses with your stupidity and arrogance. Done in any public, even civilised ones, you would have had already been 6 feet under. That's how much you really stink. And by the way, don't believe a single word you posted here. It all seems made up just so you can score some empty victories in your empty head.
Just SHUT THE F.U.C.K UP while you think you are ahead. Go give some head instead, if you can even manage to find anyone willing.
I've read some offensive piece of s.h.i.t before but the hypocrisy and condescending manner of gymhotbod really sickens me.

RIP SBS.

To W12345 ... mighty words there dude ... couldn't have said it better ...

To gymhotbod, I pity your godson ... I hope he grows up knowing that killing is bad ... that compassion and tolerance prevails, and that knowing little about anything is FATAL ...

I hope and pray, that in the tormenting trials of growing up, experiencing the confusions of puberty, the insecurities and shattered egos in high school, and the quest for belongingness in college, you won't be there to give him any of elicit advices ... I'm quite sure he's better off without it ...

Hi Jupiter 101:

Edison Chen is the handsome-but-talentless
(n horribly arrogant) Hong Kong celebrity who was caught literally 'with his pants down' in a recent
sex-scandal pics/videos involving many HK actresses- real promiscous fella there yeah-
so u know what to answer the nxt time some psycho or religious bigot gets wild n charge gays as perverts with multiple partners. And he's definately NOT that 'rare breed' of straights who behave this way- anyone who's gone to college will know what goes on behind closed doors in co-ed dorms ;))

'Girlongirl': Thankyou so much, I was wondering when somebody ( especially you ) was going to shed some light on that curious comment of yours. Thanks.

Revenge does not attract good Karma.

Adding to my VERY earlier comments, although this is murder, murder should not beget murder. In other words although I feel this crime should be punished severely, and of course more severly than what has already been meted, killing another person ( executing them ) only lowers the punisher to the level of the murderer.. The final sentences have not been given, but 'life in prison' as we have here in Australia would be appropriate

What surprises me is that the Singapore Govt have gone soft on this murder case so far, compared to a very young ( first time ) Australian drug traffiker who was caught in transit ( IN TRANSIT) at Changi airport a couple of years ago, and was executed. Killed. Killed!! Executed!
( Although I dont condone drug traffiking, there seems to be a discrepency in the law here of what is a more serious crime and what isnt)

I dont understand the logic here. Can anybody explain it to me, or is it just the illogical reasoning ( as usual) of the Singapore powers.

To: 'gymhotbod' (post #148,149,150 you certainly empahasised) Up until now, I read your ludicrous comments with the mindset that you were entitiled to your opinion, and you kept referring others to read YOUR comments properly, and rightly so, but it seems you do not apply those same standards to yourself.
I clearly pointed out that I do NOT condone drug traffiking. Drugs are a scourge, and ruin lives. I hate them, and feel that anybody dealing with drugs should experience the full force of the law.
I was making the point that how does possessing drugs equate with killing another human being in a violent manner.

Read sir, read, and grasp what a person is saying, or is it that you are just trying to attract attention with your inflammatory comments.

Post # 150 'gymhotbod' Apology accepted, and also I take the points you just made. And I agree with everything point you just made.
Why drag the issue of drugs into this debate?. Well, it was only in the context of comparing penalties for different crimes. Not for introducing a different subject.
So I wont dwell on the subject of drugs, that can be for another forum.
But I would like to say, that you are more readable and the points you try and get across are much more considerable when you write things in a more reasoned manner like your last one, rather than resorting to name calling and insulting others that have a right to their 'say'/comments also.

Have you noticed that most of the contributors ( not all ) who have suffered from your wrath have not retaliated with name-calling insults toward you.

You have a valuable contribution with your comments, SOME of them make sense and they have even made ME think, but I get very discouraged when you lower your comments to name-calling and insults. Everybody is entitled to comment without being called obscene names.
Yourself included.

I pray sad for fellow sister in Singapore die such bad death from evil people. I am lucky live in Thailand my home country. People here keep own bias quiet and show normal respect to others, even to those bar girls or poor hawkers on street becost all only trying to make living. In Bangkok, everyone gayboy or normal straight visitor know it's just harmless fun when someone flirt. One can easy just say no, no need to kill someone. If everyone is so easy to get angry when ladyboy offer fun to normal or gay man, and kill kill kill, there will be no more nightlife. Ridiculous.
I meet so many Singapore gay boys visit and I know so many very loud and rude and daring in public like shopping and public places day and night and we Thais look and wonder why no manners but we keep quiet. If we follow evil comments here , then do we kill them too? Just kill becost they deserve it in our eyes too. Of course not. We practice tolerance and acceptance.

Killing belongs to evil people. Those who approve are more evil. You know who you are and you are NOT welcome to our country such evil heart.

Think like many say here,waste time with this person on post 154.I make example of killing NOT right & you insult my country & change subject. You EVIL person with evil tongue like snake. Everythings in the world you also boast you know, like all your stories have your mother, brother, drugs, work here, work there, walk there, know this know that- everythings also you like expert. You confirmed like clown, a funny joke. You have the worse disease of all-dead heart dead mind. A poor sister was killed wrongly in your own country. Instead showing some very very little sympathy and compassion, I cannot find read all your comments you offer any, except so much hatred and condemn the victim and support violence against own gay people. You not proper decent human being with so much evil in heart.Sad.
You will continue to talk nonsense and live in this fridae forum because you can only survive inside here hiding your evil words and face. In real world, like poor sister, you will certainly be killed. I am sure of it. If you think Thailand is so bad in your evil eyes, do not ever visit, your type is no welcome forever. And why you work here? You not enough customer in your own killing country? Bpan-yaa-awn, Bpan-yaa-nim.

The debate is excellent. I am beginning to worry that majority of gays here are pleasure seekers with no respect for themselves. Perhaps it is an inherent curse in gay life which doesnt have to set examples for others (esp children) to emulate because that is not their responsibility since they have nothing to do with procreation with women. Their responsibility is to enjoy life and they owe no human for their perverted lifestyle. It has become a slippery slope for these militant gays. I think morality has its role in gay life.....otherwise the image of gay is eroded beyond redemption. I must pay respect to gymhotbod for almost fighting alone against several others who have no conscience or shame of what is unbecoming of them as respectable human. It reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible, though I am not a Christian.

I salute you gymhotbod with my innermost heart.

Any time you justify a brutal and savage killing by making statements that 'the victim was asking for it' especially in a case that does not involve any risk of life to the attackers , and six punk asses against one, you are perpetuating hate crimes and making a statement that it is ok to discriminate against gays and any other groups. Let me know when you all crawl out of the caves there.......

Settling old scores? Geez....zzzz...how conveniently a boring COP-OUT, when clearly unacceptable hate views like yours are vigorously challenged by the intelligent reasonable & moral majority. Nice try loser, but no cigars. Looks like you have a mountain of old score debt under your kampong dress then, gymwhorebod. But I do try & understand; fundamental retards like you walk a very lonely road and feel the whole world is against you becos you sincerely believe u matter. We call demented dysfunctional retards like u, TERRORIST.

What greatly offends the senses is the constant delight that U, the LOSER, is taking from mocking the seriousness of this savage hate crime/murder and the precious loss of an innocent life, to promote your own perverted self absorbed repartee. Shame on those (or is it just his many different nicks) who supports her twisted views.

Pure Garbage - both in and out of your sewage system gymwhorebod! Time to flush the s.h.i.t out. Have fun travelling down to your own cesspool level-gutter trashbag. ;) Enough time wasted already ...YAWN!

BEWARE - this web site has been infiltrated by fake users - probably from the religious fundamentalists.

If you read their entries properly - their reasoning relates exactly to how the bigots stereotype gay people as evil immoral behaviour, not humans.

:( Cant everybody just be nice ? This is not a place to air our hatreds of each other, or FORCE our views. Everybody has a right to express their view, even if we dont agree. We can all express what we feel without insulting each other. Read between the lines in what everybody is trying to say. Sometimes the truth is front of our eyes.

Even the more extreme of views have merit. Maybe its just the way we present it.

peace.

It seems that some gays have problem in relating to the real world. They can only exist in a cyberworld or toilets or saunas or drama. Perhaps they envy other gays who are able to integrate with the straights without any fears or threats and that to me is a success. On the contrary, failure to integrate with the straights, they always cry moral judger, discrimination, homophobic bigotry, etc. They feel out of place because their perverted behaviours are being frowned upon and this causes them to have a paranoid of straights trying to stamp them down. What a self-fulfilling prophecy !

All these 6 men should receive the heaviest punishment and I can only think that is fair to the victim.

Should this gay man were a woman asking for sex will these 6 men receive heavier punishment?

probably have to learn to filter out views from certain quarters ... there are over 6 billion mouths in this world ... in turn they make many folds more ... of views and opinions and ideas ... different under different conditions, environments and time ... regrettably if you listen to every single one of them ... you would die ... and you will die ;) ... so ... choose properly who and what to listen to and digest ... of course, this is the internet ... be wary and be cautious ...

peace ... and live long and prosper! ... and let Suhaimi rest in peace now ... xoxoxoxoox

Dear all,

Enough with the cat fight and lets focus on the report.
A person had been beaten to death for an undeserved cause. Yes, I don't approve his act but does it mean he deserve to be beaten to death?
Also, regarding the sentence, I do agree with johnboyhk on one point - if the deceased were a women, would the court impose a heavier punushment?

Post #167 ken34my- my hero!!!!! :)))

Dear Fridae Administrator:

We all need your urgent help in this matter.
As evidence can be seen in the below posts, a certain troublemaker by profile name Gymhotbod
repeatedly posts completely irrelevant content to the above story & constantly flames other users with comments bordering on slander.
This is in spite of our implicit indication we do not wish to participate in any of his personal attacks. Such behavior is in direction violation of
Sections 9 & 10 of the agreement terms of usage:

9.2 You agree not to send any of Your Content through your account, either directly or indirectly, that is illegal, obscene, pornographic, threatening, defamatory, invasive of privacy, infringing of intellectual property rights, or otherwise injurious to third parties including messages which are deemed abusive, harassing, defamatory, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable, and does not consist of or contain software viruses, political campaigning, commercial solicitation, chain letters, mass mailings, or any form of "spam" or which we object to in our absolute discretion.

10. Right to Peaceful Usage

10.1 You should be civil and respectful to other Members and Users.
10.2 You shall not interfere with another Member's or User's right to his/her peaceful and quiet enjoyment of our Services .
10.3 You should not cause distress, embarrassment, unwanted attention or discomfort to other Members and Users.
10.4 You should not make personal attacks on another Member or User of any kind and in any manner, including without limitation, attacks based on his/her race national origin, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disability or other identification.

Please look into this & take the necessary action as a deterrant to potential future abuses of the forum.

But girlongirl,

In #157, you call someone an idiot? So did you infringe on the rule set by Fridae?

It's good to be smart, but dont act smart.

"..I'd like to end this or the whole diarrhoea of words will never stop. Before I go, below's some advice given from my friend I'd like to share with the more rational fridae members:

Never argue with an idiot. He drags you down to his level and beats you up with experience.

That's it- I've said all I wanted to say.
Cheers & peace for everyone. :) ..."

Post #172 Mithras, I take full responsibility for that statement, but it was never directed at any particular user. Gymhotbod, however, has a lot of very particular attacks on many different users-below's one very good example:

Post #147 gymhotbod says (Posted : 05 November 2008 17:51) :

Post #143 W12345 and the likes, who are you to dictate who should shut up. Like a yappy dog but do not have a mind of your own. How much do you know about this case and have you ever travelled out of your small town before ??? And how died Ah Q died again ??? STUPIDITY !!! hehehe

Why should we conform to your norm. We have ours and we are very comfortable with it. We don't want this place to be a playground for perverts like you and the likes. We have seen what you perverts have done to Veitnam, Combodia and Thailand.

And Post #146 jupiter101, probably you a drug addict or a trafficker. How can you not know how heroin ruin lives. My brother who was an addict hit my mom when she refuse to gave him money.

Oh .... I forgot ... that was how the West colonise Asia at the turn of the century ??? . Using Opium.

Keep your drugs in your own backyards or up your A***

Post #144 Slytherine, wonderfull country you have. I remembered the streets full of younsters below the age of 10 ... and sniffling glue. Also, I visited the go go bars .... elderly westerners ... underage boys ...... Is that what you want your country to be ??? A playground for perverts ???

Post #147 girlongirl. Well, of course you are against what I said. Touch a cord because you are one of the Toilet Q ??

Pls read carefully.

I ask the administrator to take action because, as the above example highlghts, it is very ugly, personal slander against other posters & it happens REPEATEDLY across the column- to many other unfortunate members. It is one thing to vent yr anger, but it is quite another when it takes to an entirely different level & degenerate to vicious name-calling. Indeed there are other users foolish enough to reply in kind, but one can tell they've done so only because of the distress caused by his needless provocation. This is a website for the glbt community, as in all communities, there are rules.
I advocate discipline for culprits like these not to gloat over them, but to send out a very clear warning that there should-& must!- be ZERO tolerance for bullying in all forms- & that includes cyberbullying.

Sorry Fridae, if I have nt been relevant in my earlier post. I just wanted to to end this with a parting shot:

May natural justice prevail for Suhaimi. Peace.

Good try for girlongirl...

I take full responsibility for that statement, but it was never directed at any particular user.

but it was never directed at any particular user....haha

girlongirl, you represent the good moral majority and I respectfully applaud and salute you for your civil attitude.Hugs!

Sadly, I have stated many times. A snake sheds its skin and uses many different nicks to support the host. It's obvious we are dealing with one trash in many trashbags.

And never argue with a retard who clings desperately to the parable of "Ah Q Balls" and boasts how stupid she is. Give this loser some credit. It's the only short story she read in years.zzzz.

The only way to kill this forum loser parasite is simply to kill this forum topic without posting anymore comments. It needs to feed to strike again, so without new input, it cease to exist. Many good members already sounded out their right feedbacks to this story; that is more than enough. Let my post be the last foodbite for it 2feed one last time & strike again b4 it dies off to new topics.

RIP Suhaimi & Peace to Everyone (except the snake & its many guises).

jammiboi,

Whilst girlongirl is humble to admit her mistakes, you are trying to cause another flame....when the whole incident is put to rest.

I believe you want to be the first guy to be charged by Fridae for infringing rule set by Fridae by calling people snakes, etc.

I have something to clarify: I take responsibility for my statement, but it is NOT my mistake.
I have not done anything wrong.
Please do not twist my words.