Fridae

As long as His Holiness has not made such a decree via the official Vatican channel, that bishop's remark remains his own private opinion.
“I consider if someone is homosexual, it is a provocation and an abuse of this place. Try to go to a mosque if you are not Muslim."
This statement is unbefitting of a cleric to begin with:
a. The Church has been an open place receiving all kinds of visitors of all creeds and colors since time immemorial and there is no sign prohibiting or only allowing certain kinds of humans to visit as tourists. So long as the rules of decorum and propriety are observed as a visitor to a religious place, like any other religious place on earth, I do not think that the Vatican intends to move in the direction of how non-Muslims are banned from entering the pilgrimage city of Mecca or certain Hindu shrines which are off limits to non-Hindus.
b. In the first place, that bishop is not a Muslim and can only speak for himself with regards to whether or not Muslims and how they run their place of worship should follow his slanted thinking. I have personally visited many mosques as a non-Muslim and they have been hospitable to welcome me as a visitor and they are honoured by the fact that I have done my homework with regards to decorum and etiquette when visiting their place of worship.
Once again, this bishop could perhaps best remember that whilst he is entitled to his own private opinion, his august office does not allow him to make disparaging statements on non-Catholics nor on the GLBTI Community of which the Church reaches out (however limited) via Dignity and other Catholic based GLBTI movements for pastoral care.
If Christ Himself could be compassionate to the marginalised 'outcasts' during His time, why should today's shepherds of His be any different? Have certain Christians forgotten their early bloody history and how they suffered abject persecution and discrimination? Perhaps a timely reminder should be forthcoming...

"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me." - Matthew 18:5

"but the crowds learned about it and followed him. He welcomed them and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who needed healing." - Luke 9:15

"Show proper respect to everyone..." - 1 Peter 2:17

"Now the tax collectors and "sinners" were all gathering around to hear him. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them." Then Jesus told them this parable. "Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.'" - Luke 15:1-6

And what about THESE Biblical teachings? People like the Bishop are the sole reason why I turned my back towards religion. Funny how it seems okay for these people to call other people false teachers, but when the remark strikes back at them, they get all defensive.

Whatever. NOT INTERESTED in dropping by in that god damned country anyway.

Beautiful city but not the bishop. Simply simply accuse people for abusing and provoking them. I just felt abused and provoked instead.

Hey lokies,

You are well versed. :P

Try Joshua 3, and then physically march round the Vatican city with our pink banners seven times, pray, praise and worship, so that the walls of Vatican City will fall down within the country! Amen! Glory to Queer Jesus!

Are there no gay men in the clergy of the Catholic church?

His name appears to be Lithuanian. They're not very tolerant in Lithuania! Isn't it ironic that St. Peter's Basilica (the Vatican) was designed (back there in the 16th century) by Michelangelo and Raphael --- gay men both! The Bible the Bishop is quoting consists of a few isolated passages from the Hebrew Old Testament, plus just one cryptic passage from the Letter of St. Paul to the Romans. (The same St. Paul who said women should stay in their place and who condoned human slavery!) Jesus said "I did not come into the world to condemn the world but to save the world." Yes, the Catholic clergy has been replete with gay men, for centuries. (Of course, they have all had to stay in the closet. The Church just promotes hypocrisy. How else could it stay in business?)

His name appears to be Lithuanian. They're not very tolerant in Lithuania! Isn't it ironic that St. Peter's Basilica (the Vatican) was designed (back there in the 16th century) by Michelangelo and Raphael --- gay men both! The Bible the Bishop is quoting consists of a few isolated passages from the Hebrew Old Testament, plus just one cryptic passage from the Letter of St. Paul to the Romans. (The same St. Paul who said women should stay in their place and who condoned human slavery!) Jesus said "I did not come into the world to condemn the world but to save the world." Yes, the Catholic clergy has been replete with gay men, for centuries. (Of course, they have all had to stay in the closet. The Church just promotes hypocrisy. How else could it stay in business?)

The pope can sit on my cock... he worked on a artillery platform for t nazis during the war!

WHen i was in the Vatican i was walking back into Roma when i was cruised by a cute fillipino priest who was walking with an archbishop. He clearly cruised me... when i walked past he looked back again and smiled.

Who really cares what the Catholic Church say... the say its not ethical. They simply dont want to have the debate and maintain the status quo and devision of power. Religion is a lie!

Very well done lokies!

Anton in SA

The bishop's reasoning doesn't follow and his thinking is so woolly it could practically bleat, but then, that's religion for you.

Bishop Janusz Kaleta is... the Apostolic Administrator of Atyrau, a city in Kazakhstan. Maybe he is not the topmost representative of the Holy See. Not wanting to defend the august Church, but the article is to be read to be believed: for example, "According to Bishop Kaleta, Kazakhstan is a relatively good democratic place where one has religious freedom."

When ever I hear comments such as the bishop, i don't blame the RELIGION, i blame the people that interprets the religion. All religion have good philosophies that helps us understand ourselves and the world we live in, and to respect all beings.

In my eyes, the bishop had disrespected the muslim religion. Stand by your own belief bishop! Don't try to soften the blow by pointing the finger at another. "other religions are doing it too" such a follower... this comment just doens't gain my respect as a religious leader!

Maybe they should put a "homosexual" sensors for blocking gay people into entering the "holy ground".

Hmm but that would make vatican's residing population (consists ONLY of priests) decreased by 90%...

guys guys guys... we just have to be quiet about it when we walk in... simple :)

Guys... STOP HATING START LOVING...
Let's teach those considered 'holey' men the art of loving!!!

what is the bible/koran if not a diverse collection of folklores from thousands of years ago passed down orally in languages long ceased to exist? and then the jews, muslims and christians came along, edited and translated (and re-translated serveral times in some cases) to fit their own agenda when they were trying to establish themselves as a religion (and conveniently forgetting their pagan origin in the mean time).

the question is: why would any rational human in the 21st century wish to live their life by something as hocus pocus as that? and even more ludicrous is the insistence to make the bible/koran prescriptive (rather than descriptive as it actually is) and dictate peoples' lives. have we really lost our ability to think and reason?

Yes, Arthur, Michelangelo and Raphael were two famous gay men who contributed to the beauty of the Vatican, and they certainly were not the only and/or the last ones to set foot in the tiny state.
If you go to Rome and talk with Roman gays they will make you laugh telling you how a MAJORITY of the Swiss guards are NOTORIOUSLY gay, as well as MOST of the guys who work for Radio Vatican. And the priests, of course... well, many of them chose the job for reasons that are, to put it mildly, unclear.

The catholic church must have considered hypocrisy as a cardinal virtue (at least since St Irenee), otherwise how could one explain the efforts they put in practising it with such unrelenting zeal, from the holy bottom (hihihi) to the holy top ?

In the case of that bishop, heavy stupidity had to blend in with the usual dose of hypocrisy to produce such idiotic comments...
a) I've visited many mosques and I'm no muslim
b) Being gay is not a religion, you can be gay AND catholic (no, I won't comment on that one), so his remark is like comparing carrots and a Beethoven symphony in terms of kilos.

NUKE VATICAN!
NUKE JERUSALEM!
NUKE MECCA!

Organized religion is the ENEMY of the GLBT community, and should be treated as such!

i am getting readdy to seige the vatican
this is a fantoche state
without any legal standing
it should be abolished and take over by italy

Ah to my fellow Malaysians, latest update on the local scene, akin to the Bishop's attitude: Non Muslims in the state of Selangor are now not allowed to enter mosques and are compared to 'menstruating women'.
Sources:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/11/7/nation/5062851&sec=nation
http://malaysia-today.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28372:asri-slams-jais-for-stopping-non-muslims-entering-mosques-&catid=19:newscommentaries&Itemid=100131
http://www2.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/42539-asri-slams-jais-for-stopping-non-muslims-entering-mosques

hoho, they think they "respect" people who do belong to the catholic church, yet they think people who are not are going to hell. biatch.

hey, what the law in vantican city? can you be imprisoned by kissing a guy. have an urge to fly over there and pash my bf in front this bishop now;

haha i just have this thought, let's go to vatican city and venerate the icon of Cher as Holy Gay Mother of the Drag Queen Cabaret.

The pope is on his way to hell for this, I'm sure... :P

Lokies I am glad you know your scripture, but I fear you do not really understand it. God knows we are sinners but loves us anyway. So why would you condemn, invoking His holy Name, what amounts, as you inferred, to an entire country? As Plwk said, the bishop is somewhat removed from any type of flock, and his job sounds rather cushy.

laoshiyan, I am glad you don’t have your finger on “the button”, as you would wipe out 95% of the world population, and the rest of us, the animals and the plants, weeks later.

kel00 thinks the Pope is on his way to hell...you have in essence joined the same condemnation by Fred Phelps of Westboro Church in Topeka, the "God hates fags" people. Catholics do not believe non Catholics are going to hell. None of us has any authority to judge, including kel00 and Phelps.

I was in Brunei on a guided tour, and we were shown the inner sanctum of the mosque, as well as the other facilities and classrooms, feet washing areas, etc. No cameras. Same as the Buddhist temples. And anyone who thinks all Buddhists are tolerant you'd better think again.

So thanks CHATUCAK, for promoting civility among us.

PLwk - I have nothing good to say about JAIS especially after the yoga fiasco [most recently the BEP and Beyonce thingamagic]. I just think they are overpaid

Whilst women whom are mensurating are advised against entering a mosque, there are absolutely no rules about non-Muslims being shown inside or around the compound of a mosque. I would be more than happy to show you around the mosques [usually its just the historical ones that would interest any tourists] in Singapore if this would interest you. I do believe that there are the administrative offices in most of the mosques here that you can just drop in and seek permission to have a look.

Pope RATzinger the nazi stooge who claimed he had an infected finger and never pulled the trigger on his anti aircraft gun against the allies...OH right! just like bill clinton never breathed in his joint smoke or put his cigar in monicas virgina..jejeje..silly old pope Rat didn't have the stregnth of his convictions like some german christians to say 'NO" to the Nazis... not a proud story for him..whats to see in the vatican any way just poncy old men running around in overly decorated dresses probably secretly feeling up the alter boys any chance they can get...(;-)) real news please

hey, i am jewish and we still find a way to be welcome there, come with me and i will arrange a private secret tour for all the gay good looking, good spirited gay jewish guys out there

love those catholics and great artistic inspiration and religious experiences for all

The Bishop was just pointing out the obvious. Some buildings or places are there for a reason. To him, the Vatican is a sacred place for Catholics. It's a place for Catholics to be divinely inspired. Non-religious tourism at the Vatican is probably not a high priority for them.

Nonetheless, the Bishop is wrong to say that non-Muslims are not allowed into a mosque. While there are some mosques that forbid non-Muslims from entering, others are more welcoming as long as it's not during prayer times and the visitors are suitably attired.

Prominent Americans like George W Bush and Hillary Clinton had visited mosques. The Bishop may have forgotten that Pope Benedict XVI visited the Istanbul's Blue Mosque in 2006 and a Jordanian mosque in 2009.

Perhaps, the Bishop was referring to the Muslim holy cities of Mecca and Medina where all non-Muslims are barred from entering. I don't think this is a religious requirement. Despite of the restriction, non-Muslims has successfully infiltrated Mecca.

Point is, there's no fool proof way to stop determined people from entering any restricted venues. The Vatican may have a directive to stop sexual minorities from entering the enclave, but how do you put that in practice? Will visitors be asked their sexual orientation at the gate? Will there be tests?

it's amazing how his tact has managed to offend the GLBTQ community as well as the Muslim religion.

I respect that the Vatican City is their territory. They do have the right not to welcome anyone who doesn't agree with their anti-homosexuality teachings.

On the other side of the coin is that they also don't have the right outside the Vatican City and other fundamentalist territories to impose their will on the majority who'd rather believe in science, National Geographic and real people that homosexuality is NOT unnatural, and NOT a mental disorder and that gays are NOT exclusively sex addicts leading a wild, wild life. Some gays may, as do some straights, fall under these categories. But not ALL gays. They have the right to believe in words written thousands of years ago and to not compare these with facts. But the majority of the developed world don't have to follow suit.

Hence, I respect their decision not to welcome us. And I expect them to accept that most of the developed world's governments and policymakers also don't welcome their anti-gay agenda.

This is utter rubbish! I have been a Catholic for all my life & had been an active church member for years. The old farts at the Vatican had fucked up big time again on this one. No wonder Our Lady at her apparitions had forewarned the collapse of the church because of the resurgence of pagans within the Catholic community itself.
So dismaying - the bishop is an embarrassment to humanity, not just any faith.

This is why we will never move forward with minds like this... But hey why give our time and effort to those who give nothing back to us. They are a true embarrassment to themselves ......

Lets all be free and live in Harmony .........

I like it when he says, “The church teachings are from the Bible. If we change this teaching, we will not be the Catholic Church. Don’t expect the Catholic church to change these issues, because it is our identity.”

Clearly, anybody who went throught some decent high school system and took World History know what they did during the Dark Ages.
The Bible never told them to persecute and kill thousands of others among many other evils the catholics did to the innocent people.

My next favorite line is, "...If you have different ideas, go to a different location.”
Wow~ what a Christian way of treating others! The vatican city receives millions of tourists each year, most of whom are not even catholics. They have different ideas. They come just to see the city, not because they agree with the catholic teachings. Gay visitors aren't any different in this sense.
I think they might as well come up with a new policy "Straight Catholics are Welcome, but no others"

What a liar and a hypocrite!!!
They are one of the worst thing ever happened to human history!!!

Maybe not for Vatican City, but gay
tourists are highly wlecomed in Japan.
Thailand & Japan, buddism are gay friendly!
1Japan
http://www.fridae.com/tribe:494/1japan
(men only, sorry for girls)

The church is not God. They just believe they do.

God made us all, God is in all of us. God loves everyone.

The statement is quite idiotic and the logic is flawed. "Try to go to a mosque if you are not Muslim", he states. I was recently in Istanbul and visited many mosques as a tourist - and I am not a Muslim. Let's never forget that what is in the Bible was selected by a small group of clerics in Nicea hundreds of years after the death of Jesus when many of the 'facts' could not be fully substantiated. A great deal was discarded because it suited the group. That's not just fiction from the Da Vinci Code and other similar books. It is fact.

St Peter's Basilica is quite gay. It's flamboyant, totally OTT, and it screams at you from all corners.

Duh...is it any surprise? All along Queen Benedict...oh, I mean Papa Benedict ...has never been shy of displaying more pride & pomp than the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

Given the historical stance of homosexuality by the Catholic Church, what self respecting gay man or woman would want to step foot into the Vatican City anyways?

Really ?

just cancelled my visit to Rome..who wants to visit an old outdated and bigotted Vatican City anyway..full of child abusers like the catholic churches in USA and Europe..I suppose

The Vatican Museum is also full of homoerotic art, some of it with coded references to oral sex. I was quite gobsmacked.

And then there's the Sistine Chapel. Hel-lo-o.

The Vatican could close its doors, if they think they could live without the gay community.......who painted the most beautiful pieces of art in the Vatican???.....who is the clergy of the Catholic church???
.....just two small questions, which cannot be answerd without mentioning many gays

HECK LondonGeezer, i would have looked back at you and smiled as well! :)
As for this Bishop, he doesn't speak officially for the church...It was a dumb comment!

This announcement coming from a place filled with pedophiles...

Bullshit article. God Loves Man else why did God made men to be gays and lesbians in the first place. Miscontrued and misguided ppl whom calls themselves the 'religious'

Way to go, "lagunabro" (comment 31). You made me smile widely... thanks! Some time ago, a singular Malaysian doctor linked "gay sex" to "acidity and H1N1", which of course got some people into a big huff, but a member called "TonioTreschi" said "What's the big deal? I always create friction and heat when i have sex... thanks, doctor!" I was feeling a bit down at the time, but his comment just took me by surprise and made me laugh heartily. It literally blew the blues away in that moment. A belated thanks, Tonio. Member Kuman10127 sometimes makes me smile too, because of his stubbornly independent thinking, even if i may not always fully or surreally agree. But i think Kuman would be the one to say out loud that the emperor had no clothes, when everyone else is taken in. In that vein, Alex Au and Siew Kum Hong are mature and independent thinkers, too. Then there are those members here who, surprisingly, sometimes share from the heart some very personal experiences, that we are really privileged to learn from. Yes, there are serious issues involved, and there is a good cross-section of people here of different races and faiths, as well as agnostics or atheists. I, too, have my beliefs, and i know i'm totally digressing, but tour-leader "lagunabro" seems to be saying with a smile: "lighten up, bro!" Well, i think that's good advice... Shalom and cheers!

As they continue to emass and wield enormous worldly weath and power, what the catholic "church" says, and what it does, is mostly a dychotomy of hypocrisy and lies. I got all warm and fuzzy reading the bishop's loving remarks above (NOT!!). We all know GOD created the universe, men and women and we are all god's perfect creations. Men and women made religion and so it is flawed and imperfect. Yeah, religion does control people to a certain extent, It has (in the name of "god") murdered it's fair share of humanity over the last 2000 years and continues to this day to do so; and yeah, religion contains just enough "truths" mixed into it's mumbo-jumbo to make it's fairy tales seem plausible. But the higher truths of GOD, our universe and ourselves are becoming known to us, and soon all the lies and hypocricies of "religion" will be exposed; bringing the death of man-made religions and an age of enlightenment. So, until that happens, let's do chill out and love each other....let's love even those who aren't so easy to love....like, for instance bishop Kaleta. And if you want to visit Vatican City, VISIT VATICAN CITY.

The bishop's comments are so ineffectual and hilarious, I find it hard to take him seriously. Unless I happen to start smoking like a vampire caught in sunlight once I cross the Vatican City boundaries. :)

O Catholic gay boys unite! Lets go to the Holy See with our rainbow halos and light up St Peter's Basilica!

lol... i can't help smiling, comment 56... :) i'm outta here... but not to Rome. ciao!

Let him say what he wants to... So long as we in good faith act according to our informed conscience, and do not practise EXCLUDING others, we should be fine. Those are basic tenets of the Catholic faith which the good Bishop seems to have conveniently forgotten. If his 'religious logic' prevails, then NO ONE can enter the Vatican coz we are all sinners anyway, in one way or another - divorcees can't enter; those who practise birth control can't enter; those who lie, cheat & steal can't enter.

If NONE of us sinners can enter, then Vatican City will go broke soon coz they depend on tourist dollars in addition to dwindling contributions from the churches worldwide.

Hmmmm come to think of it, mebbe I think he's confusing the Vatican with his idea of Heaven..

It is quite interesting that in Hong Kong when the government was consulting before homosexual behaviour was " decriminalised" ,the Catholic Bishop wrote to support it while not accepting homosexuality. What one normally considers the more liberal Anglican Church opposed "decriminalisation "Homosexual conduct is undesirable and we, of the Chinese Anglican Church of Hong Kong & Macau, will not endorse any law aimed at relaxing or legalising it . aWe would like to see some more positive approaches taken in the forms of medical or psychological treatment." The local Chinese Manufacturers Association said it was un-Chinese "... the overwhelming majority of inhabitants in Hong Kong are Chinese, and although Chinese traditional culture is undergoing rapid erosion, the traditional Chinese values are still Confucian; but homosexuality is not found among Confucian values. "
A famous Chinese Surgeon /University Professor said that disease would be spread if decriminalisation took place . From the medical point of view, it is an "abominable" practice. Homosexuality is known to cause 50% viral hepatitis B and a large number of Kaposis' sarcoma in California. Other infections like syphilis, gonorrhoea and amaebiasis, etc. are also prevalent. If homosexuality is allowed in Hong Kong, there would be a degeneration of morals in the population resulting in a propagation of these diseases."
(Professor G.B. Ong,
Department of Surgery, Hong Kong University
Not all anti-gay opinions lie in the Vatican City..Another in Hong Kong ""I abhor all unnatural sex acts and would not care to associate with any habitual homosexual person." (B.J. Fludder, JP (Q’ld),
Touche Ross & Co.
Chartered Accountants
Certified Public Accountants)
All of the above are on public record.
Despite the Gay parade here recently...!

It is quite interesting that in Hong Kong when the government was consulting before homosexual behaviour was " decriminalised" ,the Catholic Bishop wrote to support it while not accepting homosexuality. What one normally considers the more liberal Anglican Church opposed "decriminalisation "Homosexual conduct is undesirable and we, of the Chinese Anglican Church of Hong Kong & Macau, will not endorse any law aimed at relaxing or legalising it . aWe would like to see some more positive approaches taken in the forms of medical or psychological treatment." The local Chinese Manufacturers Association said it was un-Chinese "... the overwhelming majority of inhabitants in Hong Kong are Chinese, and although Chinese traditional culture is undergoing rapid erosion, the traditional Chinese values are still Confucian; but homosexuality is not found among Confucian values. "
A famous Chinese Surgeon /University Professor said that disease would be spread if decriminalisation took place . From the medical point of view, it is an "abominable" practice. Homosexuality is known to cause 50% viral hepatitis B and a large number of Kaposis' sarcoma in California. Other infections like syphilis, gonorrhoea and amaebiasis, etc. are also prevalent. If homosexuality is allowed in Hong Kong, there would be a degeneration of morals in the population resulting in a propagation of these diseases."
(Professor G.B. Ong,
Department of Surgery, Hong Kong University
Not all anti-gay opinions lie in the Vatican City..Another in Hong Kong ""I abhor all unnatural sex acts and would not care to associate with any habitual homosexual person." (B.J. Fludder, JP (Q’ld),
Touche Ross & Co.
Chartered Accountants
Certified Public Accountants)
All of the above are on public record.
Despite the Gay parade here recently...!

for a gay-affirming church go to www.jesus.com

Like Id go there anyway? NOT

Yep, and for jew-loving nazis go to www.humanbeingsaresoooofuckedup.com

put a stop on us?
pls impose economic sanction on vatican

Who needs the Vatican and its outdated principles anymore? I go to the Sistine Chapel for all those fleshy hunks staring down from the ceiling:)

I lived in the Catholic Bible when I was in my childhood years. Yes it is true how the Catholic Bible express that God only made a Man and a Woman. But I also believe that if a man Praises our Lord above he is welcome in his Kingdom of Heaven in which it doesn't express whether you are a "HOMOSEXUAL".

I don't mean to preach but I just want to stress the fact that the words used are very striking. The Lord when he opens his mouth, He will make sure that we can Learn deeper to it's meaning but not to criticize.

Like CHATUCAK said "Guys... STOP HATING START LOVING... "
We maybe forgetting that we starting to loose every bit of love that we all have so tried to maintain and still trying to SHARE.

God speed... TC everyone

For the bishop who has condemn us. May i tell you here you will be condemn when it is your time to meet Jesus.

It doesnt mean that you are Bishop, it translate you having a place guaranteed in Heaven.

You as being a Bishop you should show love to all mankind regardless. Yet you turn your back against us and abandon us. Aren't Jesus is about love?? Where is your love and graciousness??

The day will come where Jesus will turn his back against you too.

Bishop, Where is the kind heartthat God gave him and put he becomes Bishop?

Experience tells us that people hate those who are most like themselves. This man is a closet case. So let him stay there.

who is this bishop to judge PLUs???? when GOD himself doesnt even judge & Loves ALL???? dat bishop is just not practising whats he's preaching!!! For GOd's sake!

Hmm. I wonder where "Thou shall not judge" went?

Here in Singapore, there was a report last week in the Straits Times about the sex abuse of children in childcare homes & orphanages by...you guessed it, the Roman Catholic clergy in Ireland...but the juciest part is actually how their Vatican Brethen actually tried hushing up the (understandably) damaging scandal. Hmm...it seems even 'Holy' priests could not resist pleasures of the flesh fr time to time, no?

Talk about being caught with yr pants down...lol...and they still fancy themselves higher than the common people *rolls eyes* Well, can't really blame them; I would, too, if I had that obscene an amount of wealth in my hands.