Fridae

It's annoying how these people rather waste their time on some dumb fuck law making, when at the same time, their people are dying because of the poverty. If there's only one nasty thing I could say, it would be: they deserved it.

On the way back home I stopped by to see this Out West, so let the people in Africa know, America is Proud of its Tradition of GaY COwboys...

'Out West' at the Autry examines the history of homosexuals and transgender people in the Old West
Museum officials say the series may be the first of its kind.
1 2 next | single page
One-Eyed Charlie was a driver for the California Stage Co. After his death, he was discovered to be a woman. (Wells Fargo / December 14, 2009)

This report on Rwanda is confusing, as older reports on the net suggest it has been illegal for a while, despite the constitution, and paint a picture that makes even Uganda seem liberal by comparison. All activity seems to be underground and longterm relationships too dangerous to envisage.

They're just trying to keep pace with Malaysia, I think.

I never comment on articles, but this time I have to say something. To post #1: How can you say that they deserve to die from poverty? What the heck is the matter with you? Nobody should ever die from being impoverished, regardless of any external situations. Your country has anti-homosexual Acts and lack of gay rights too... so I guess if you were in poverty, you deserve to die too then? Have some compassion, seriously.

#5. Not to defend what he was saying, but I think the point he was trying to make was that their priorities are seriously f'ed up if they can actually afford to waste time on anti-homosexual acts considering the state of their country... which is probably part of the reason. so in a sense, they do sorta bring it upon themselves.

Geez @ #5, #6 made my point. Which part of my comment did I state that they deserve to die? Okay, maybe I wasn't significant enough. But by "they deserved it", I meant this backwardness they are heading to is a grave they dug for themselves. Have some rationality, seriously.

You are clearly referring to the people dying of poverty when you say “they deserve it”. Anybody with a basic grasp of the English language would deduce that from your post. But fine, let’s say that’s not really what you meant. You are still saying that the people deserve the backwardness that they created for themselves, which is still wrong.

The government and the people are two separate entities. If a few government officials pass a stupid law, how can you blame the people for it? And how can you justify that the people deserve it?

I’m saying that you should have more compassion for the general public that live under this “backwardness”, instead of saying that they deserve something they did not have a hand in creating.

Also, what makes you think that poverty isn't their priority? Just because they vote on new laws and discuss other issues doesn't mean that all of a sudden they don't care about poverty.

My best friend just came back from Rwanda & The DRC from volunteering in poor communities, and has witnessed, FIRST-HAND, the efforts of organizations AND the government in reducing poverty. Rwanda's poverty reduction program even won the UN's highest award for development. Obviously there is more that can be done - that can be said of every issue, in every country - but it’s unfair to assume that the country is not making poverty a priority just because a new law is being discussed. Is everything supposed to be put on hold until poverty is solved?

So please, get some rationality for yourself first, seriously.

sorry for being blunt, but with any given facts, logically speaking, with every problems at hands, isnt it right that it is heterosexuality that should be banned in africa?

less population, less angry men, more manageable country, more food as per ratio to people.

in fact, it is the pro creating heterosexuals that making africa as it is that we actually need more gays there.

check this out guys, Uganda passing the bill based on utter rubbish.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/08/richard-cohen-rachel-maddow_n_385057.html

#1, Lokies, by following your statement "their people are dying because of the poverty" with "they deserved it", you are implying they deserve to be dying from the poverty. And you yourself said it's a "nasty" thing to say. Also, using words like that and "these people" seems to be the tone of an f'ing bigot!

Perhaps a better way to put this point across is these misguided leaders do not deserve excessive support from the international community. If the donations keep pouring in but they keep doing stupid things to jeopardise their own countries, then the donations may not arrive at their intended goals. A very good example is the strengthening of stigma via the creation & enforcement of discriminative laws and policies against homosexuals, which has been proven to be detrimental to the fight against HIV.

Billions of dollars of donations are supposed to reduce the HIV infection rates in these countries. But, because their own governments are nurturing stigma, their epidemic has continued to worsen. If the international community continues to pour their donations into the hands of these misguided and corrupted governments, it may be construed as an act of endorsement of these detrimental policies.

The decision-makers of international HIV-focused organisations should exercise discretion and leverage with their financial resources. They should have designed a scorecard for the potential beneficiaries of their donation to both assess how much donation to give, and encourage the latter to co-operate better by implementing constructive policies. Those governments that are objectively assessed to be the most co-operative and constructive should deserve more donations. Those that derail should be punished by having their donations curtailed. The decisions and assessments of such HIV-focused organisations should be transparent, explained and published online.

Should there be any serious violation of human rights such as the in the case of Uganda's planned gay genocide, or evidence of the corrupted governments pocketing donation money, an embargo may even be required to convey strong disapproval. This lends the opposition parties in these countries more ammunition to challenge the ruling parties. Without foreign aids, Uganda and Rwanda would have become bankrupts. If they cannot demonstrate good use of donations, then their lifeline should be cut until such time when their politicians can resolve their personal problems. If none of the political parties can, then they should be replaced via a revolution, which may be painful in the short term but good for their future.

This offers voters in Rwanda and Uganda a transparent assessment of their POLITICAL PARTIES so that they may be informed clearly as to how much aids they can expect to receive by voting in which parties to run these countries. The reasons why different parties may receive different levels of aids should also be explained. It provides the voters an additional piece of information to help them decide which party to vote for. People may vote based on different reasons, including ideologies or faiths. Economic consequence is just another factor for some voters to consider.

On the other hand, with the criteria of such a donation beneficiary's scorecard being published, the political parties are also encouraged to make their policies around what are considered good policies by the international community. For example, low corruption, independence of judiciary, fair election, respect for human rights, reduction of poverty, criminalisation of slavery and child labour, rural access to healthcare, etc. If improvements in these areas on the scorecard is identified, the government would be rewarded with more aids.

I'd even encourage prizes (with financial rewards) for those individuals who perform well in their respective capacities as Ministers, opposition leaders, volunteers or law enforcers. So, a good Minister (definitely not the Minister who proposed to execute gays!) may receive only US$2000 in salary, but US$20,000 in Prize. Beside financial gains, such individuals who make a positive difference to these poor countries earn honour which money can't buy. A Foundation akin to the Nobel Foundation and Carnegie Foundation should be established to finance this.

it is logical to react negatively to those African countries, when one hears this kind of news; and it's true that poverty plays a fundamental role. It creates fertile grounds for ignorance and bigotry, but let's not forget that bigotry also played a role in reelecting Bush in 2004 here in the U.S.

It's appalling that a nation that lost almost 1 million people through civil war/genocide in the early 90s is devoting time and resources to MORE persecution. The Rwandan politicians must figure not enough people got buried in all those mass graves.

It is scaring me. I wonder if this trend will be followed by other developing countries. I just can't imagine myself being put behind bars because of my sexual orientation. Ridiculous but appaling at the same time. Are we living at the start of the 21st century or...?

Yes, it is reasonable and logical for people with feelings to first react negatively, emotionally, and irrationally to news like this.

This Discussion Forum is a place for all of us (18 year olds with curt, seemingly irrational and emotional comments, 25 year olds with MBA-like strategic plans, and 47 year olds who've been there and done that and still intend to do more). I'm impresed by these comments and how we've emotionally, gently, perhaps irrationally and even firmly made our points. For many fridae.com members, English isn't their native language, and it can't be easy to post comments that are well-reasearched, grammatically correct, wise and scholarly.

"Lokies": you always come through with your gut-level, one-liners, and they're nice to read...I like how you participate in many fridae.com discussions....you're young and smart, and you like to be involved. And your comments definitely make me THINK and FEEL.

"Funky-fresh": you are compassionate and wise for a young man of only 21. Even though you state that you "never post comments" I'd personally like to hear from you more often here in these Discussions. You have your head on straight, and your are smart. Thank you for sharing the experiences of your friend with us...that was deeply touching.

"sunthemoon" for a young man of only 25, you should be running for high public office or running a large corporation (if you're not already). You write like an accomplished MBA, and your mind is sharp...please use your talents and your passion to change the world. I love, love, love reading your posts.

Is there anything we can do for our suffering brothers and sisters in Africa?

love,
alan

If I did not know better I would think this is an April Fools Joke. Thank God I live in Canada, and in British Columbia where same sex couples have almost all the same rights as hetro couples.

It's very hard to believe parts of the world can be so out-of-touch and so spiteful.

Lokies posts comments emotionally. There's seldom any measured reasoning to his comments. I'm sure he didn't REALLY mean that Rwandans deserve death and misery because of this misguided efforts of their government officials.

And I, too, really enjoyed reading funky_fresh's and sunthenmoon's comments. Very intelligently written.

Thanks for your kind comments. Anyway, I hope that Fridae will report on the situation in South Africa also. The lesbians in SA have been subjected to "corrective rape", and such acts have been reportedly condoned by the authorities. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/4982520/Lesbians-subjected-to-corrective-rape-in-South-Africa.html]

What is galling in all of this, is Rwanda was only weeks formally admitted to the Commonwealth - and is only the second nation (after Mozambique) to enter that didn't have links with British imperial expansion - it was a Belgian conquest.

If the Commonwealth can do anything there should be basic acceptance of fundamental rights - this may not mean equal age of consent or marriage rights (that comes much later in a nation's development) - but there must minimums should as not enactnig laws that criminalise human nature.

Atrocious. Absolutely atrocious.

sunthenmoon, there was an earlier report:
http://www.fridae.com/newsfeatures/2009/03/17/2238.lesbians-in-south-africa-face-rising-threat-of-corrective-rape

One major link according to the article I've linked in the previous article about Africa appears to be the charismatic Transformations movement, there is even a quote saying Rwanda and Burundi would be next after Uganda.

Recently read an article on Rwanda looking up to Singapore and learning from Singapore. Could it be that they are learning how to persecute people through draconian laws to achieve economic success? Seems like Singapore's iron-fist rule with good economic growth is a model which many developing countries are emulating.

Millions of people in Rwanda committed horrendous war crimes just over a decade ago, and a tiny fraction of them have been prosecuted in the courts of law. Rwandan law makers should concentrate on that and stop this idiotic unwarranted and unacceptable homophobia.

I am a teacher in the USA and I find that the most homophobic students I have are those from Africa. It is sad, but that appears to be their culture. My students are nice to me generally, but when the immigrants from Africa realize I am gay that changes. They no longer are respectful and they often become discipline problems.

I believe this is from ignorance and extremism in their religion whether they are Muslim or Christian.