Two Malaysian men successfully claimed refugee status in the UK on grounds that they are gays last month despite the low success rates of such claims based on sexual orientation.
The UK had granted the status to the duo -- Seow Shih Yung, 30, from Penang and Wong Yu Xiu, 25, from Petaling Jaya – based on their fear of persecution on grounds of their sexual orientation.
Under Section 377 of the Malaysian Penal Code, in an offence classified as "carnal intercourse against the order of nature", a convicted person may be punished with imprisonment of up to 20 years and also liable to fine or whipping.
"Both were in a homosexual relationship while in Malaysia, and moved to the UK because they feared that they were not able to practise homosexual relationship openly," said their lawyer Uma Devi Rajasundram.
Uma Devi said Seow and Wong went to the UK on a working holiday visa and the former had overstayed and became an illegal.
and they look like nice quality gay boys too, perhaps some positive role models immigrating in to the UK will rub off on alot of those 'scungy queers' over there we could certainly couldndo with some moving here to ho town Sydney as well (;-D)
skyriver72 seems to be correct about this. Yes, Malaysia still have that Penal Code 377A but it is not actively enforced except for some cases, which are cconsidered criminal, not to mention some high-profile cases like the Anwar Ibrahim trial, which is dubious at times. However, just allow for the judiciary to do its job.
Having said that, there have been no active effort to enforce Penal Code 377A for non-criminal matter. Gays are generally tolerated despite not being recognised as a group of people with its own rights. Gay bars especially are flourishing and although it is raided from time to time, it is also happen to straight club as well. Just occasionally, the gay saunas are raided and it is being splashed in the headlines that generated interest. Well, straights brothels are raided too, so what's the different? Serve them right for that.
I am a Muslim and I'm gay and I look at this matter as a personal preference without having to shout out to other people that I am such. Even if my colleagues ask me about my sexuality, does it concern them? What's the point of telling other people that I am gay? It doesn't serve any point value per se.
Anyway, this is started to be a little bit about the abuse of law for a 'perceived' threat. I think skyriver got his own arguments about this matter and kazukicanada shouldn't say that skyriver need to apologise for stating his own opinion. Don't dwell on the premise that these two guys are gays but think of them as two immigrants seeking to solidify their presence in the UK. If we talk about qualification based on the gay premise, I am more than qualified to apply for political asylum in the UK on the basis that I am a Muslim gay and I perceived there is a threat to my personal safety, which is obviously not the case.
Something wrong with this statement: "Two Malaysian men successfully claimed refugee status in the UK on grounds that they are gays last month... ". They are gays since last month? Should be written as "Last month, two Malaysian men.." or "In September, two Malaysian men..".
It's interesting that Anwar Ibrahim wasn't charged with Islamic laws but instead, secular laws inherited from colonial British. I do agree with skyriver72 that this is probably a ploy to get UK resident visas. Nonetheless, I wish them well in their new life in UK.
@2, What "they look like nice quality gay boys too, perhaps some positive role models immigrating in to the UK will rub off on alot of those 'scungy queers' over there " means exactely?
That most asian gay boys living in the UK are dirty and of poor quality? A rather surprising if not bigoted statement!
Come on, with 377 on the books, there is always a danger that they'll be prosecuted. It's no "ploy". And it's only natural for them to want to live in a country where they are not criminalised.
There is a difference between being tolerated and being equal under the law. That became obvious in California once gays and lesbians were given the right to marry and then had it taken away again. If you don't think that tolerance can quickly turn: please check out Anderson Cooper and his "discussion" with Andrew Shirvell.
1. Sec 377 is used to prosecute the Opposition Leader
2. The cops here don't give a flying f**k what 2 Chinese gays do to each other in bed
3. These 2 are in the UK - 1 as an illegal, the other is on a work visa where he is obligated to leave the UK once the visa expires
4. Both went to the UK initially for ECONOMIC reasons - why the sudden cry of "Oh, I'm going to be prosecuted when I go home!"?
Believe me, the Malaysian authorities have absolutely no interest in these two nobodies.
Hey, honestly, I'm happy that they can live wherever they want to live but in doing so - they have just painted the whole of Malaysia as some oppressive anti-gay regime and all gays here are living in fear of their lives.
I should apologise to them?
How about they apologise to all gay Malaysians for misrepresenting us?
How about they apologise to the British people for exploiting the UK's compassionate laws to attain their own ends?
How about they try applying for a skill based visa to stay on in UK to live and work?
funny...i dont see anything that...in malaysia gay couples can live with that such of laws? yes there was the law but they have lack of enforcement..so what do u wanna to care about it?
just let it go...nothing happen to u unless u fuck ur partner in public...that is ur problem...
oh please...it was obvious they used that route because they wanted to emigrate and they found this loophole. More power to them
Having said that, life truly isn't as bad as the laws make it out to be. There are MANY gay men and couples who choose to make a life here and we're perfectly happy.
To look at the laws and draw the conclusion that gay men are persecuted to the extent that it's horrible and people can't live here is really taking it to an extreme.
That's not to say persecution doesn't exist. Much goes unreported, hate crimes of every sort, violence against women/transexuals/gay men. Much needs to be done but to say that people need to apply as refugees to the UK is skirting abuse of a loophole. The law in the UK was never meant to be used that way.
1. Sec 377 is used to prosecute the Opposition Leader
- So if you're gay and are actively on the opposition side, you run the risk of being prosecuted with this law. Does this sound right to you?
2. The cops here don't give a flying f**k what 2 Chinese gays do to each other in bed
- NOT UNLESS they can squeeze cash out of you.
3. These 2 are in the UK - 1 as an illegal, the other is on a work visa where he is obligated to leave the UK once the visa expires
- So yes, they took this route. WHATS IT TO YOU? Just because they do this doesn't mean it will reflect on EVERYone else. Better to do this than to get caught later and be sent home in shame dont'cha think?
4. Both went to the UK initially for ECONOMIC reasons - why the sudden cry of "Oh, I'm going to be prosecuted when I go home!"?
- Still economic. You have never been in their shoes so what makes you think just because YOU do not feel discriminated against that they won't experience such treatment?!
Believe me, the Malaysian authorities have absolutely no interest in these two nobodies.
- So now it becomes personal. you do not know them at all, and already you're labelling them as nobodies? Who are you?
Hey, honestly, I'm happy that they can live wherever they want to live but in doing so - they have just painted the whole of Malaysia as some oppressive anti-gay regime and all gays here are living in fear of their lives.
- Yes, they have and I'm absolutely delighted that they have done so.
I should apologise to them?
- Yes, for passing judgement like you're the virgin mary.
How about they apologise to all gay Malaysians for misrepresenting us?
- How are they misrepresenting US? you now suddenly think so highly of them that their "nobody" actions can be misconstrued as representative of ALL Malaysian gay men.
How about they apologise to the British people for exploiting the UK's compassionate laws to attain their own ends?
- laws are made to be broken/exploited/however you want to call it. Thats how most crooks got off the hook.
How about they try applying for a skill based visa to stay on in UK to live and work?
- maybe they tried. or they just fell shy below requirements. Lots of maybes here.
Stop being such an ASIAN.(the kind that puts FACE first instead of addressing the real problems.)
UK does not easily grant PR status to Malaysians just based on their sexual orientation, hence explains the low success rate of using sexual orientation as an excuse. Maybe their sexual orientation is just part of great big reason + multiple other factors that UK judges feels they are eligible for asylum. Only they and the judges knows the real reason. Let's not speculate. They have been granted asylum for whatever reason only known to them. They wish to stay in UK and they got it. So, just wish them well.
I m also impressed that many of you(Non-asians) welcome this decision instead of "Oh! Not another immigrant" It shows that you all have big hearts and I salute you all.
-->Ipark. This only shows that you have got a lot more to learn about asians, rather then just your stereotype comment. :)
I agree with t4b that they will have given UK PR for other reasons. The article is skewdly written, and may not have given a proper background coverage of the couples getting their application approved. It's a baffle that a journalist wrote such poor reporting.
I also agree with skyriver72 that the Penal Code 377A is hardly a threat to gay Malaysians, or a barrier to maintaining a gay relationship. The only no-no in Malaysia (as with many other countries as well) is intimate affection of the same-sex in public... no PDA. Even if you hold hands or hugs or kisses, no one is going to arrest and punish you. For Muslim gays, their actions may be subjected to Shariah laws.
Kazukicanada made a good observation of 377A definition, albeit a Canadian =D, however if you look closely it does not apply to one's sexual identity, it is the sexual act itself (anal and oral sexual intercourse) between hetero or homosexual. If anyone should be scared, it should be Malaysians as a whole.
Anwar's case is more complicated than 377A, he was charged for rape, that's criminal, and different from consentual sex.
We can all appeal to have the clause amended for a healthier, more secure and tolerating environment for all Malaysians.
These 2 Malaysians are just using the gay penal code in Malaysia as an excuse to get British residency. Its ridiculous. There are thousands of Malaysian gays still living in Malaysia without having the worry of being persecuted unless they have sex openly in public. I hope this couple has not done anything wrong in Malaysia prior to this application.
I dont see the value of this article at all to be published. It signifies stupidity and the fact that there exist such gays who take advantage of their own home country laws to gain benefits in another country.
Nevertheless, all the best to this duo couple to their new home in Britain. To me I dont see this as a good idea at all....thousands of people from Europe and America are migrating to Asia in search for opportunities.
omg ... come on guys ... stop bashing on each other .. if ya really want the truth why not dig deep asked seow and wong then ...btw those folks are misusing their passport as the writer Quote both on working by holidays visa ???? aww come one you knew you cant work on your damn holiday visa every1 knew that!!!
Malaysia culture accepts gay couples with little discrimination overly and covertly. yet not to the level wanna lock them up in jail. but when come to legislation, extremely unfavor to gay personal safety, not to further mention materiality. if you are indicted under malaysia law with gay issue concerned, NO breath, NO space for gay to be here, every day think strategically how to combat in court...so sad.
Thanks kazukicanada for the comprehensive explanation. I believe so because developed countries legal system have matured throughout the years. Thanks to ppl who fights for their rights and "matured" judges who are willing to take extreme measures to interpret the law because they understood human rights and the need to protect it. (including ministers who are willing to change the laws and passed it).
Here in Asia, the general public defines the law. All these discriminating colonial era laws are unchanged, so called in order to "preserve Asian values". Plus no ministers or judges dare to even think of doing it because all afraid of offending the public and it may jeopardize their current position (+ politics). We, Asian countries still have got a long way to go, but eventually, eventually I hope we will reach there. But one good thing. Asians are tolerant. There is no gay bashing or killing. When they see gay behaving differently, to general public, it's just a joke. I think we are more laid back in this sense. This laid back attitude that what makes living in Asia great. :)
Dear kazukicanada, now you understand why the bashing here. Because most Asian ppl may not understood what you have explain. We are brought up in an environment where basic human rights not observe. Sometimes we can be quite selfish and discriminative. There are many Africans now in Malaysia and I see how they are being discriminated just because they are bigger built and has darker skin. ( The mentality are darker skin ppl are of lower class and higher incidence of crime rate.) Haiz....... When will the time come???
I agree with #3 from the beginning, to me it is a foul cry from these 2 Malaysians who uses "Fear" as a tool to manipulate the whole situation to their own advantage. See how proud they are holding up their documents? as if it is a lifetime achievement award!
Hold up! There is no right or wrong in giving up one's citizenship. However, projecting a delusional fact is damaging. These 2 people left, we the other Malaysian's are still here living our lives, going to the bar, going to clubs, meeting in public places, getting it on in our bedroom, having a life together, working, browsing porn sites freely. Where is the fear? The police force in Malaysia is so eager with nothing to do but to wait on guys having sex with each other and put them behind bars. Seriously?
Let me shed some light about "Fear", it happens when you are caught having kinky sex in the park somewhere between Cheras (public sex is offensive in many countries even if you are gay or straight), having tested positive for drugs when there is a raid in a gay club (straight people get charged for drug use too), caught in the act in a gay sauna, the list goes on!
So should we all jump on to the next flight to the UK and have a cup of tea with the Queen? because we are in "Fear"? Total BS!!!!!!!!!!
So these 2 want to constantly hold hands in public, deep kiss each other at starbucks, grab each others bum all the time in public, and pretend it is a normal behaviour? What makes them think that they are not being discriminated in the UK? Humans evolved, we develop social etiquette's to function and co-exist in society and sustain regardless where we are.
This is straight cut counsellors case in which these 2 individuals could not fulfil the U.K's requirements to either apply for PR status or work permit!
I can understand why...being gay AND Chinese AND non-Muslim in Malaysia..is no joke.
And it's pretty amusing to see from some replies above...how green-eyed some people can be, even though they think they hide it well
;-> Methinks it's better Europe accepts GENUINE cases of asylum like these, instead of taking in *ahem* religious militants who are only instrested in milking their generous social security schemes for 'multiplying & reproduction'- literally speaking. ;-)
LOL bro! ...not such a Charmer really are we? ;) ...PT Foundation will disagree with you...police raids in May ruining their anti-AIDS efforts!!
Anyway Canada is not so cool as UK on this, Canada deported this persecuted Malaysian guy in 2008, who was then sought by police on his return to Malaysia and had to go into hiding...
" "Kulen is a gay man from a Hindu family who is known to police and the vice squads in Malaysia," says Mulcair's letter to Finley. "His former relationship, of 12 years, with his Muslim partner was ended by police involvement and resulted in Kulen's incarceration and torture."
Amnesty International has intervened on behalf of Kulen.
"Amnesty International believes that the rights of homosexuals cannot be protected in Malaysia, and homosexual persons should not be forcibly returned to Malaysia. The risk to Mr Amirthalingam is compounded by his identity as a Tamil Hindu," says their letter to Finley.
Deportation is planned for Mar 6.
A representative from Finley's office did not respond to our request for more information by press time."...
See http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?&STORY_ID=4444&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=2
In my opinion, kazukicanada shouldn't be harping on the Canadian system as what work best for them might not work best for us, Asians, unless we totally adopt the Western culture of tolerance. Speaking of tolerance, we have heard that there have been cases that they are not as receptive as they perceived to be.
There are conservative people around us and as much as we want to be open, we need to bear in mind that we're dealing with a different set of morality system, unlike what is being practised in Western countries. Penal Code 377A is a remnant of the past, one that was partly fuelled by Christian ideology that viewed homosexuality as a sin.
I can comfortably say that the case such as one mentioned by #37 is due to the police report lodged by the family of Kulen's ex-lover. It is unfortunate indeed but this case highlighted the very essence of morality of the community at large. Perhaps, the family of Kulen's ex-lover perceived Kulen to be the influential factor in making their son gay in the first place and they merely looking for a scapegoat to put the blame on instead of looking at different perspective, a more positive one.
Penal Code 377A has become a trophy of sort for gay activists all over the world where this British legacy still remained enforced. However, most people choose to fled rather than stay to make the change for their home country, which makes me thinking that the two Malaysian men are more influenced by economic reasons rather than because of their homosexuality. Their homosexuality is an added package for the asylum application that bolstered their case on compassion ground, given the fact that Anwar Ibrahim is currently undergoing trial for offense allegedly committed under Penal Code 377A, giving the impression that it is indeed true that gays are under prosecution in Malaysia.
Perhaps, kazukicanada can look at matters from Asian perspective who are in majority, comfortably living their current life without any hindrance from the authority rather than making a sweeping statement that gives the impression that we are really under major oppression by virtue of Penal Code 377A. It is not so much about the legislation per se, it is the society that need to be changed. Only when the society at large feel that this law is outdated, only when the society at large welcome homosexuality as part of the community, only when the society at large can stand by homosexual members in defending their rights, that will be the coming of age time for us.
#37 i think we not a chamer alot all ..awww what a shame with the police raids .. well, its really a tough job .. and yeah we still in ignorance society... ha ha ha its really funny on how this posted get my attention so mmuch ... maybe its was the 2 malaysian ??
or maybe it was a easier way too get the asylum in uk ???
or maybe i could learn one or a few trick in here ....and not to mention where the part gets naughty and juicy ... some people felt pity for them, which im not ... and some people just expressing their feeling .. (which is im trying to do )
i was wondeirng if Seow & Wong have planned this all along ???both still young ... bet they can make living in just fine in malaysia or was the paid too small for them ??or they just wanted to be the headline and get famous ... :D
and i was thinking, if you are too damn deperates to make a big time dont used the damn some hot "issues" as law to get tru with it ??
so what, you gay , you in malaysia , you cant live happily forever .. who said you cant ??? you just have to blend with the society ... knew your limits...
i bet, i think i seriously bet with my soul ... anyway in this world even in the gay world if they saw a gay couple making out in public they still in awe and talks and felt digust about it ....
i just so mad that these bright malaysian using some excuses to get away from their own problems and they just never knew what they could do to the other ....
i just hoping that the brits doesnt tighten up they security for malaysian to pay visited their country again, enough with the blacklist and the visa!!! after all why make things complicated when its easily things to do ..
OMG .. THIS IS EVEN BETTER THAN READING NY POST PAGE SIX!!!! WOOHOOO ... MAN, THINGS JUST STARTED GETTING NASTY!!
LURRRVEEE IT ...ITS GOIN TO BE MY FAV PAGES!!!! HE HE HE ....
Now now this is how the world goes to war grabbing at each other's throat on petty issues as such, while others happily standing by make sure they are doomed. How are gays in the world to unite and fight for their rights when people as such can't even stand or respect each other's opinions?? Just rest the case and be at peace with each other...be tolerant and wish them well:)
i don't know the two personally but do know their friends and their reasons for being in the UK would not be solely economic.
whether s.377 is used or not is not the issue. if i have a gun pointed at my head i would still feel nervous whether or not the person holding the gun pulled the trigger. the presence of such a law alone can affect one's human rights.
as for the economic/social arguments, malaysia with its race/religion policies seems hellbent on ensuring that while it may be first rate in heaven, it's definitely content to be a second-rate country on earth.
so good luck to anyone who says this is not acceptable, and leaves.
IT IS INTERESTING AND SAD THAT SO MANY GAYS, EVEN IN INTOLERANT ASIAN COUNTRIES, CAN BE SO UNAWARE OF THEIR LACK OF RIGHTS AND BE SO UNWILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO CHANGE THE DISCRIMINATORY LAWS. I CAN UNDERSTAND ,BUT NOT AGREE, WITH RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST TAKING THESE ATTITUDES, WE HAD THAT EXPERIENCE IN HONG KONG AND THE LAWS WERE BRITISH BUT WERE FORTUNATELY CHANGED BEFORE THE BRITS LEFT ,BECAUSE OF SOME BRAVE GAYS AND HUMAN RIGHTS PEOPLE. THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CHANGED UNDER THE PRESENT ADMINISTRATION. THE BRITS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR LEAVING RESTRICTIVE MANY LAWS IN MANY COMMONWEALTH COUNTRIES AND COLONIES.
JEALOUSY IS SUCH A NEGATIVE AND DEMEANING TRAIT.
THESE GUYS ARE DRAWING THE ATTENTION OF THE WORLD, THROUGH THE PUBLICITY , TO THE UNJUST SITUATION IN COUNTRIES SUCH AS MALAYSIA..ANWAR DID IT TOO.
DONT SPEND YOUR PINK DOLLARS IN SUCH PLACES...AND LET THEM KNOW...
What a misnomer . Charmer2? No charmer to me. What nonsense he writes..as shown in the following quoted in part ,from non charnmer,Charmer 2.
"I can comfortably say that the case such as one mentioned by #37 is due to the police report lodged by the family of Kulen's ex-lover. It is unfortunate indeed but this case highlighted the very essence of morality of the community at large. Perhaps, the family of Kulen's ex-lover .............merely looking for a scapegoat to put the blame on ..... ".
Does it matter who makes the report or why ? The point is that any gay person in Malasia can be threatened with exposure, blackmailed or driven to suicide. It does not matter by whom it was introduced, what matters is that there can be frightened people unwilling to become public and work to change the laws and public perceptions ,as has happened in the more democratic and enlightened western states. Buddhism , a religion of many Chinese, does not preach that kind of hate. Thank God.
What appears to be a simple article about 2 men, ends up creating such debate.
Pardon me for being rude, but what has it gotta do with you?
They may have gotten it with other valid reasons plus the legal system. ( Am not a law student)
Or yes, they could have utilized the loophole to their own convenience as mentioned.
Ultimately, its their lives. Neither do I see them in any sense representing Malaysia as a whole.
Isnt it ridiculous to use one example as an illustration of the whole community?
Main point is, why does it cause such uproar/dispute within ourselves?
Perhaps with different upbringing, cultures, personal life experiences, our views may differ.
But I suppose, even if we cant totally agree with what others perceive, it is not necessary to convince otherwise.
Am sure anyone will welcome constructive comments,
but I guess we could try lessen personal insults?
i would rather say it started when someone trying to me MR BIG THING, saying that he knews all the laws in malaysia while he doesnt ??? just a preview and look up in wikipeda doesnt make you expert!! and started to bashing up people and talk BS big time just to justify his case , gimme a break ....
seriously i just really hate when people are so deperate they just do anything that leading to a big mess to someone else life ...
get asylum ?? after being gay last month ??depite low success ?? i think i can sum it all,they being such a LAZY arse.....
WANT SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE ?? GO AND EARN IT, WORK HARD THATS THE RIGHT WAY not trashing bad mouth about your own damn country! and again its all my own opinion!!!!
Ish... many people seem to not know how things are being run in Malaysia. In Malaysia, any rules goes, regardless if you are Muslim or not. Sodomy itself is against nature, hence you can be persecuted under the Malaysian secular law. And no matter how right you are, it's detain first, explain later. Rules and regulations? To hell you go when you're being detained by the police. If such rules and regulations apply, do tell, why is the mortality rate under police custody in Malaysia is THAT high?
And, no, Ive did a brief read through on the comments, the couples in the mentioned article is not "gay since last month", it's a grammar context.. oh dear dear.. The entire sentence meant they have got their asylum since last month, IMO.
Apologies beforehand for any mistakes omitted from not reading the entire long hate/counter-remarks.
Sorry for the second post, but I did another read-through and by the gods, can you bunch of clowns who don't understand how suppressed we Chinese people are in Malaysia not make anymore stupid comments? I'd be more critical and say, regardless of how outstanding and understanding you are with the secular and Islamic laws of Malaysia, come live with us and think twice before making such idiotic statement. And if you any dumbass out there have any arguments to take on my comment, I'd be more than glad to file my nails and bitch with you with my horrid opinion of what has been swept under the rug all these while by the corrupted administration here.
I'd also suggest worshipers of mainstream news in Malaysia to get a life, and a brain at the same time by reading http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia and understand what the bloodyfuck is going on in Malaysia.
Apologies, once again, to any offense made. Unless of course, you bunch of clowns can't understand what "apologies" mean.
The two guys should have keep this a low profile....Why put it on the web????
I do agreed with Ipark @ 7. Might not be MOST Asian Gay living in UK, but Some Gaysian ,specially those you see in Centre london, were no quality, poor manners, cheap, have no respect for other, not even themself, and no wonder most white guys treat asians as a piece of meat that they can do whatever they want....
Let me say first I do not understand, comprehend thus accept the 'queer bashing' that some of you, writers, have expressed so far and some in the most foul way.
However, I was most pleased to read 'kazukicanada's various writings as well as those by 't4b' and 'zeltish'. I concur with you wholeheartedly.
Back to the case of these two guys who have claimed refugee status on the basis of their sexual oriental.
Some of you claim or suspect -without any ground- they may have had an hidden agenda, some insinuated they were bad citizens for leaving the country, some indicated that their country is not livable if you take the basic necessary precautions whatever that may mean
but plainly -at least for me- stay in the closet, shut your mouth...and all will be 'wine and roses.
Well these guys did not think that 'it gets better' and left the country. Since one is considered innocent before proven guilty, I shall -not even give them the benefit of the doubt- I will, accept -because I have no cause to the contrary- accept fully and without reservations their wish for another kind of life they had previously in their country based on their sexual orientation which the case put to the English court.
Maybe these two guys had in mind the Asean Charter, Chapter 2 'Purposes and Principles', Article 1 'Purposes' and have read the 11th purpose: "To enhance the well being and livelihood of the Peoples of Asean by providing with equitable access to
opportunities for human development, social welfare and justice."
Surely these two guys had in mind...
'Under Section 377 of the Malaysian Penal Code, is an offense classified as "carnal intercourse against the order of nature", a convicted person may be punished with imprisonment of up to 20 years and also liable to fine or whipping.'
It is true that until very recently most requests to obtain refugee status in the U.K based on sexual preference (i.e by returning home being exposed to grave sanctions) were seldom granted (98% refusals between 2005 and 2009) and in spite of the UK having signed and adhered to the U.N 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees which stipules:
'The United Nations 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees provides that members of social groups are entitled to asylum in states that are parties to the convention if they can establish a well-founded danger or fear of persecution if they returned to their home country.'
Unfortunately, up to 2009, all applicants had to pass a 'tolerance test' (were they to return to their country) which was contrary to the Refugee Convention, to which the UK is a signatory
The UK landmark decision happened in June 2010 while an African gay man was seeking refugee status. The U.K Supreme court judge, Lord Hope, took the following new, fair and within the spirit of the U.N Convention decision :
"To compel a homosexual person to pretend that his sexuality does not exist or suppress the behaviour by which to manifest itself is to deny his fundamental right to be who he is"....
"Homosexuals are as much entitled to freedom of association with others who are of the same sexual orientation as people who are straight."
The decision creates a complete change in the approach that will be taken by tribunals and courts to applications for asylum by gay people, as all future applications of a similar nature will have to apply the Supreme Court's guidance...and this is precisely
how these two Malaysian guys did benefit from the June 2010 landmark ruling.
Chief executive of gay lobby group Stonewall, Ben Summerskill, when welcoming Lord Hope's ruling said:
"Demanding that lesbian or gay people return home to conceal their sexuality bears no resemblance to the reality of gay life in many countries".
Point taken !
I sincerely hope this writing stops further unfair bickering.
Seow Shih Yung and Wong Yu Xiu, take care, keep well. I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
notes taken esp thx zeltish .. i just saying out my opinion thats all .. bet i didnt read the full story .. my mistake but still phony too me ...
thats all .. so to wong and seow ...not proud with what you doing i guess you guys got to do what you have to do then!
LOL, personal attacks are a cool way to distract from the issues...Keep it up, we don't want people discussing embarrassing facts !! LOL!!
......issues like in Singapore or Malaysia is a decision to keep criminalizing gays an act of persecution ( a loaded gun)
...is banning gay groups that want to put forward their point of view an act of persecution
....is police stopping and filming a group of gays going for a run together an act of persecution
...is prosecuting politicians for supposedly being gay an act of persecution
...is allowing the blackmail of gay citizens an act of persecution
....is firing openly gay teachers as a "bad role model" an act of persecution
...is banning any portrayal on TV or film of gay people in happy and successful relationships an act of persecution
....is raiding the meeting places of gays an act of persecution
...is targeting troublesome community leaders for politically expedient drugs raids an act of persecution
...is stopping HIV sufferers having the same access to lifesaving drugs as other people because of "moral disapproval" an act of persecution
...is letting radical religious groups decide what rights gay people should have an act of persecution
...is stopping discussion of these issues by trolling gay discussion boards and starting fake arguments an act of persecution
...well as a troll myself I say no, none of this is persecution... its just lots of fun... people should love their country and ignore its shortcoming and just sit down and STFU!! ;)
I was very surprised to see such heated comments and personal criticisms about the fantastic achievement of these 2 guys on getting asylum in the UK on the grounds of sexual orientation. Prior to this, even LGBTs who could prove that they were tortured and risked death had their asylum applications rejected.
I think that those who are very critical e.g. kudin85 have massive chips on their shoulders. I myself "escaped" to the UK in the early 80's so that I could live freely as a gay man and no, that does not mean that I want to behave licentiously in public! As for Charmer22 making such rude comments on someone's profile pics,it just shows how shallow he is.
100% correct
" As for Charmer22 making such rude comments on someone's profile pics,it just shows how shallow he is. "
I don't agree.
" Prior to this, even LGBTs who could prove that they were tortured and risked death had their asylum applications rejected. "
Did u ever read the rulings? Legal complications are not as simple as you can imagine. The court has to evaluate and gather enough evidents (well, it is the duty of the plaintiff. Sometimes we encounter bad or inexperienced lawyers. Therefore, there are so many factors affect asylum application base on 377 or whatever the case is. It is not something you apply you get. U have to remember, the judge might not know about 377 in that country well, perhaps the applicant had been living in certain countries (sensitive countries) without very clear evident to prove he did not involve any terrorist training that might post dangerous to his/her country. Well, legal systems are very complicated. Therefore we should not make the judgment as what we see in the press.
These 2 guys got it. We are happy for them because they can live freely and happily in the country they want. I don't think they had any intention to talk about Malaysia 377 or represent Malaysian gays. Well, I believe online information are widely available about 377 in any countries that still using it to discrimate gays. Don't have to spend time condemn them like many guys here, go to other websites that directly talking bad about Malaysia 377, not these 2 guys. Give them a break. Be happy for them. If you feel living under 377 is fine for u, continue your life there, no one is asking u to migrate. Right?
To skyriver: Like seriously? just because they decided to find a way to stay in uk and u are saying it like they created wars??
well we all understand how gay live in asian country especially gay...Being gay is being labelled as mentally sick..And gay couples are not allow to even hold hand,,let alone other things that normal couple can do... Maybe u may not feel discriminated like this, but not to other ppl..And its good that they finally can live like normal couple in uk now...I admire them alot...
Lol here we go again, 1st pea brain cutting and pasting comments, as usual not having any point to his/her comments. Your vulva looks swollen from the picture by the way, lube much?
Where is your accomplice? the 2nd pea brain? Still marinating on what to say?
rite on!! fuck .. i think i just goin to leave back in peace,but not anymore .. but hey joesheff i think the kiasu in you still not fade away after you flew back to uk with ya scottish bf ??? ha ha ha ha .. funny when you say massive chips on my shoulder !!! you dont even knew me dude!! so back off ... as people saying its freedom of speech!!im just saying out my opinion but looks like there always other bitches who love to fire back!! and hell no im not goin to put myself in silence ....
so bring it on!! say what ever fuck you want to say but for ssure you just cant handle the freedom of speech!!! and btw joesheff the writer even type that "both are feared to practise their homosexual relationship openly ... are you blind or simply an idiot ...
and kazuki just leave the 377 alone ... why the heck its so damn important to you ... you are damn canadian or japanese .. go learn your law rather than bashing other country law .. beside who are you ??? the top lawyer in the world im afraid not!!! just fucking other country law , or was it just a pain in the arse to keep you shut!
i dont care if this get deleted .. so write to the fridae management,crying like a bitch saying im talking too much vulgar or it just simply show that you cant take it!!! and why shld i care about it!!! you fire me ... im just simply fire back at you BITCH!!
hahaha. Interesting feedback. I enjoyed reading it. Keep it up. Can't b fun without even stronger negative reactions from u. U are right, 377 does not apply to you because u will be under Islamic laws, perhaps be executed by your religion leader.
Just for your information. 377 is not exclusive for Malaysia only. hahahaha
My Malaysian friend said this to u.
"Malaysia Boleh, Apa boleh ? U think 377 was made in Malaysia like Proton car?" "If Kazuki is damn Japanese and Canadian. Perhaps u have to naik Babi as your mood of transport. hahaha. U better of Stop using Japanese products and Technology, then I will tell u Malaysian Boleh."
If u want to exchange personal attack with people from developed nations. Look around what u are using. None of them are made from Malaysian brain. Stop fucking around if u don't have cock."
I would not complain to Fridae anymore because there is no way a stupid Malaysian like u will ever have stronger facts to fire back. Hey, make sure the gun isn't originated from North America. Use Malaysia made water gun is better. Safe and Sound. hahahaha
Malaysian Chinese said "Sorry if Kazuki and I hurt u too much. Please cry if u want. Waiting for your water gun feedback."
Hey, other readers, don't take it serious here because many stupid Malaysians around. Not all Malaysians are stupid, just some few bad apples make "Malaysia apa boleh, cakap banjak boleh sahaja"
The above statement are from Kazuki and Malaysian Chinese.
It's these kind of bogus reports that give countries a bad name. I have muslim friends here who have been in relationships for 10 years and longer. No-one's been persecuted, whipped or locked up. What a load of garbage......
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fyi, dont label others stupid .. shld i gave you a lovely nice big mirror so that you able to see your face???? for who doesnt write and spell right??
wake up!! .. and yeah ask your friend to make their on account to write the feedback or rather asking you to post it .. WHAT A SHAME , did you lose your balls?i bet you do ...
and this goes esp to the malaysian chinese.. shame on you ... you shld read what he(kazuki) wrote abt the chinese when he BS ,nampak sgtla ko nie dungu kan ??? does 13 may , familiar to you ?? or been busy lobbying for kazuki ??? buka mata la ah chai!
i think chamer rite .. you aint nothing but just a simply #%^@^*
ha ha ha ha lmao
hahaha. Finally we managed to control your fucking mouth. Calm down. It is ok. If u want to make fun of others, take the risk. Otherwise it is better to use "Malaysia Boleh". Cakap boleh, produce nothing.
I think u better stop talking too much before you make your own country in shame. Wanna play personal attack, please find those guys in developing nations. Don't fight with ppl like me because Canada and Japane have never claimed we boleh but we have actions, INVENTION. This is call "BOLEH". Understood now?
Cyberbully is bad. I don't like it but I have no choice to play with some of u guys here. Boleh boleh boleh. Jangan cakap banyak. Malu sendiri.
Regards,
Canadian and Japanese grass and his Malaysian supporters.
comtrol ,ma fuckin mouth ??? lol .. funny ....
produce nothing looks like you know nothing ...u just simply a silly empty can that make alot of noise ... done with this BS, backing off not because i have nothing to say but why shld i entertaint it more ....
so long sucker...
kudin85, calm down. be cool.Go and get some sex instead of wasting your time here when u know u "Malaysia Boleh". Yes, boleh, sure, putting all the minority races into second class citizenship without giving them equal treatments but paying the same taxes. Why those second class citizen Malaysians cannot fight back? Your government is using "Internal Security Act" to put those who against the government in jail without trial. Without trial !!! Terrible. Is it called "Malaysia Boleh" Boleh bully people. U r right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCfWE_TJpSw
I am not sure whether u can view this youtube.
So, be nice to people in the forum, don't use personal attack when you whole body is full of bad smell.
Hope u are the new general of Malay. Give the minority races with a fair treatment. Make them feel really Malaysian. Deep inside their heart, how to really feel pround if u r being treated as second class. Your God will bless u more when u know how to take care of His creaters. Don't forget, He created Babi also.
Regards
Malaysian (minority race)
Sorry, guys, I have to hide to prevent ISA to hunt me.
For those who think Seow and Wang got their stay in the UK could misrepresent Malaysian gays for their true happiness even there is 377 present. Come on, don't be childish. None of us really know the ruling. What factors did their lawyer bring to the court to convince the court they should be given a PR in UK? Look, they applied as a couple, who decide to live together with complete freedom in Malaysia. Can they do it openly under 377 without fear at all? I don't mean public sex. Secondly, they might bring the Malaysian ISA into the court, which they can never use democratic ways to change the law. Third, Are they second class citizen in Malaysia? All these facts might be in the court and in order to protect of their loved ones' safety who are still in Malaysia, the court might not want to let the public aware he did look into these sensitive issues that they are not safe to return back.
Give them a break. Don't have to condemn them anymore. Take care of your own second class citizen issue is better than talking bad of them. At the end, u r still nothing better than them. Tell me, "Malaysia Boleh or UK Boleh"? Grass in the West or developed nations are still much better than Malaysia for sure. There is no heaven even in developed nations, but as a developed nation like Canada. We are fully democratic and will continue bring up many issues into consideration, improvement and adjustment through the democratic ways. No fucking ISA to shut our mouth.
Give u some real emocratic examples in the politic of Canada, which can never happen even in my native country in Japan. This is called full democracy. Governor General of Canada is the person who represents Our Queen - Queen Elizabeth in the parliament and Canada. GG will sign new registration before it becomes law.
1) Michaelle Jean was the Governor General of Canada. She is a black woman, migrated here as a refugee when she was 8 years old.
http://www.gg.ca/document.aspx?id=41
2) Adrienne Clarkson was the Government General of Canada. She came to Canada as a refugee, with her parents, after her family was forced to leave by the Japanese aggressive, invasion of Hong Kong in 1941.
Look at these 2 ladies, refugee became the highest ranking officer in Canada and present the Queen. Don't have to argue if the grass in the West is not greener than Asia. I believe, it will be less than 30 years, our future Prime Minister will be either Chinese or Indian. Nothing is impossible in Canada. No one stop u who u want to be. U are the only one who stop yourself from progressive. Are u more capable than these two Canadian refugees? We have room for u to be our Queen's presentative. The honorable of the Governor General of Canada.
A lot of people in general criticises their own country. However, a certain japanese cunt face runaway refugee living Canada and his herd of dogs are just plain idiots in what seems to be a misrepresentation of themselves, and as global citizen in the 21st century.
These are the type of people that would turn their back on the simple truth and run for cover because they just can't the heat.
Hey cunt face, in this age of day japanese vehicles are not solely made in japan, internal parts and workings of the car may come from China, India, yes these goes for other car manufacturers too around the globe, if you had a bigger pea brain you would read more! So please don't start being patriotic and mentioning such thing as if the country you ditched owe it to you big time to do their marketing for them, obviously you were rejected! Yawn!
I won't be so evil to state the obvious, but you and your dogs should buy a blow fish and slice it into bite sizes and eat it raw!!!!! Yummmmmmmmy!
#83
"A lot of people in general criticises their own country. However, a certain japanese cunt face runaway refugee living Canada and his herd of dogs are just plain idiots in what seems to be a misrepresentation of themselves, and as global citizen in the 21st century."
I certainly can understand why you don't it in Malaysia. It is simple, ISA. How to do if u can be jailed if u talk about your government policies? Even in Canada, we openly criticise our government in order to get our voice heard. This is called Democracy. Our government encourage us to voices our view and opinions in order to make Canada a better place to live. Even in Japan. We don't have Internal Security Act to control our mouth. Neither we have 377 to control our ass. Young man, wake up. I told u, grass in Canada and Japan is greener. Even the mind. I think u are old enough to go to internet find more about the laws and freedom in the developed nations who don't have ISA and 377. Then u will appreciate how much we enjoy our lives here. Let me tell u, look at our 2 refugees who became our Government General. What do u feel? Jealous or admire? U have a serious inferoior complex. U r the real out put of Malaysian second class citizen. Malay boleh, boleh, oh Chinese tak boleh la. Hey, babi, Tanah Malayu, bukan China.
"Hey cunt face, in this age of day japanese vehicles are not solely made in japan, internal parts and workings of the car may come from China, India, yes these goes for other car manufacturers too around the globe, if you had a bigger pea brain you would read more!"
My gosh! Did u go to school? I am sure u don't have a degree. When Toyota makes money, where does the profit goes? Of cause back to Japan. How to be G7 countires without taking back the money we make. hahaha Do u have BlackBerry? It is owned by Canadian. Canadian brand. We make a lot of money by using cheap labor like China and Malaysia. That's why we call our invention, that's why they r developed nation not boleh boleh at the end, no invention for any kind of goods. In order to be superpower in econmy, you need inventions and own the brands, where the products or parts are made are actually the advantage of the brand owner because they can achieve better profit at the end and of cause, bring back the money to the real owner. That is how the rich becomes richer. Look at your Proton, where is the teachnology come from? Your skytrain and subway? Even your twin towers, all from the west or Japan. That's why we are richer. Basic economy theory. Time to back to school to learn more instead of spending time in this forum talking nonesense.
"I won't be so evil to state the obvious, but you and your dogs should buy a blow fish and slice it into bite sizes and eat it raw!!!!! Yummmmmmmmy!"
Sorry, I don't know what u r talking about. Certainly the language that normal people can't understand.
Charmer 22. Is it fun giving personal attack statement in return making yourself look stupid? Let me tell u a simple way to become a developed nation, we learned in our secondary school. "Our voice and constantly feedback to our law makers and politicians are very important to make Canada a better place to live - Make Canada Canada" I love Canada and Japan but I have a duty to critize my government when the politicians are not making the right decisions or policies for us. Freedom of speech is guaranteed in our Chartered of rights and freedoms. It was created in 1982 by our own government to reduce the power of parliament, law makers and politicians. In history, we proved that the biggest builier is still the government. Therefore the Chartered is so important to protect Canadians being abused by Canadian government. Now u know why gays enjoy the same rights as straight people. When a same sex partner dies, the next of kin is his/her partner. It is like straight people. That's Why the retirement law became invalid due to contradicting to the Chartered?
I can really feel your feelings living in this kind of environment. Anwar Ibrahim has been charged twice in 377 because he talks too much and critize the rulling government. Charmer 22, Do u know u can love your country and at the same time talking bad about it freely is a duty of all Canadian and Japanese citizens? I feel so lucky and proud of my native country - Japan and Canada after I know u more.
Hey cunt face! Finally you answered my call without even pin pointing personally to your nick name lol.
Technology is transferable, don't preach to me about your cut and paste facts. Another fact, expertise and knowledge is use and shared across the world, you are definitely thinking like a person without education, I don't blame you, you are just born incompetent. Any person or entity don't have to own everything to call themselves great!
I am glad to enlighten you anytime so that you will not get into an identity situation, after all these bashings you finally get it, however, much improvement needed from your side.
Oh about the blow fish, its simple let me explain. Blow fish are poisonous you see, only experts knows how to slice and dish out the edible parts, and I was very sure you don't know how to slice it, so that's why I'm asking you to do so.
Basically asking you to go die, but in a non- violent way!
Make peace and agree to disagree. It is only natural that in the course of freedom of speech, there tend to be disagreement of sort. I have to admit that I agree with charmer22 when it comes to living life as a gay man in Malaysia and while there is always a legal recourse to it, it is more towards the perceived culture than legal nature of it.
There is always two side of the coins here and while Canadian legal system works perfectly for Canada, Malaysian legal system works perfectly for Malaysia. However, by saying perfect, it doesn't mean it shuts the door to further modification and improvement. What I am saying is that the system evolves. It will take time to mature and living in this society, with all its shortcomings and advantages, I come to appreciate the sky I am holding above my head.
The grass would always appears to be greener on the other side. It is a natural human perception. Anyhow, all the opinions expressed here show that we can be a community of gays but we too, have different and dissenting views about things. There are no rights or wrongs here, only what is appropriate for the current time and situation.
Evidently, the U.K. is more free and open to gays than is the U.S.A. The Americans would never give anyone asylum on these grounds. The U.K. now allows civil partnerships and gay marriage. The United States does not (except in a few individual states --- and they don't control immigration or asylum).
ironically, countries like Malaysia, Singapore, India, etc. that were once under the thumb of the British Empire inherited these anti-gay laws from colonial Britain. Britain has long since repealed these antediluvial laws. And India has recently done the same. Why are Malaysia and Singapore --- which claim to be so modern --- still living in the 19th century, with regard to this issue? Can anyone tell me why?
Oh, they don't have this problem in countries that were once under the thumb of France. Like Vietnam. France abolished anti-gay laws way back under Napoleon --- 200 years ago!
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They just want a resident visa and using the refugee route only makes bona fide Malaysians working in or visiting the UK look bad!
Having said that, there have been no active effort to enforce Penal Code 377A for non-criminal matter. Gays are generally tolerated despite not being recognised as a group of people with its own rights. Gay bars especially are flourishing and although it is raided from time to time, it is also happen to straight club as well. Just occasionally, the gay saunas are raided and it is being splashed in the headlines that generated interest. Well, straights brothels are raided too, so what's the different? Serve them right for that.
I am a Muslim and I'm gay and I look at this matter as a personal preference without having to shout out to other people that I am such. Even if my colleagues ask me about my sexuality, does it concern them? What's the point of telling other people that I am gay? It doesn't serve any point value per se.
Anyway, this is started to be a little bit about the abuse of law for a 'perceived' threat. I think skyriver got his own arguments about this matter and kazukicanada shouldn't say that skyriver need to apologise for stating his own opinion. Don't dwell on the premise that these two guys are gays but think of them as two immigrants seeking to solidify their presence in the UK. If we talk about qualification based on the gay premise, I am more than qualified to apply for political asylum in the UK on the basis that I am a Muslim gay and I perceived there is a threat to my personal safety, which is obviously not the case.
Just my opinion...
It's interesting that Anwar Ibrahim wasn't charged with Islamic laws but instead, secular laws inherited from colonial British. I do agree with skyriver72 that this is probably a ploy to get UK resident visas. Nonetheless, I wish them well in their new life in UK.
That most asian gay boys living in the UK are dirty and of poor quality? A rather surprising if not bigoted statement!
Curious to know more about "Quality gay boys"...
There is a difference between being tolerated and being equal under the law. That became obvious in California once gays and lesbians were given the right to marry and then had it taken away again. If you don't think that tolerance can quickly turn: please check out Anderson Cooper and his "discussion" with Andrew Shirvell.
Vive Free Speech! Vive Human Rights!
1. Sec 377 is used to prosecute the Opposition Leader
2. The cops here don't give a flying f**k what 2 Chinese gays do to each other in bed
3. These 2 are in the UK - 1 as an illegal, the other is on a work visa where he is obligated to leave the UK once the visa expires
4. Both went to the UK initially for ECONOMIC reasons - why the sudden cry of "Oh, I'm going to be prosecuted when I go home!"?
Believe me, the Malaysian authorities have absolutely no interest in these two nobodies.
Hey, honestly, I'm happy that they can live wherever they want to live but in doing so - they have just painted the whole of Malaysia as some oppressive anti-gay regime and all gays here are living in fear of their lives.
I should apologise to them?
How about they apologise to all gay Malaysians for misrepresenting us?
How about they apologise to the British people for exploiting the UK's compassionate laws to attain their own ends?
How about they try applying for a skill based visa to stay on in UK to live and work?
just let it go...nothing happen to u unless u fuck ur partner in public...that is ur problem...
Having said that, life truly isn't as bad as the laws make it out to be. There are MANY gay men and couples who choose to make a life here and we're perfectly happy.
To look at the laws and draw the conclusion that gay men are persecuted to the extent that it's horrible and people can't live here is really taking it to an extreme.
That's not to say persecution doesn't exist. Much goes unreported, hate crimes of every sort, violence against women/transexuals/gay men. Much needs to be done but to say that people need to apply as refugees to the UK is skirting abuse of a loophole. The law in the UK was never meant to be used that way.
1. Sec 377 is used to prosecute the Opposition Leader
- So if you're gay and are actively on the opposition side, you run the risk of being prosecuted with this law. Does this sound right to you?
2. The cops here don't give a flying f**k what 2 Chinese gays do to each other in bed
- NOT UNLESS they can squeeze cash out of you.
3. These 2 are in the UK - 1 as an illegal, the other is on a work visa where he is obligated to leave the UK once the visa expires
- So yes, they took this route. WHATS IT TO YOU? Just because they do this doesn't mean it will reflect on EVERYone else. Better to do this than to get caught later and be sent home in shame dont'cha think?
4. Both went to the UK initially for ECONOMIC reasons - why the sudden cry of "Oh, I'm going to be prosecuted when I go home!"?
- Still economic. You have never been in their shoes so what makes you think just because YOU do not feel discriminated against that they won't experience such treatment?!
Believe me, the Malaysian authorities have absolutely no interest in these two nobodies.
- So now it becomes personal. you do not know them at all, and already you're labelling them as nobodies? Who are you?
Hey, honestly, I'm happy that they can live wherever they want to live but in doing so - they have just painted the whole of Malaysia as some oppressive anti-gay regime and all gays here are living in fear of their lives.
- Yes, they have and I'm absolutely delighted that they have done so.
I should apologise to them?
- Yes, for passing judgement like you're the virgin mary.
How about they apologise to all gay Malaysians for misrepresenting us?
- How are they misrepresenting US? you now suddenly think so highly of them that their "nobody" actions can be misconstrued as representative of ALL Malaysian gay men.
How about they apologise to the British people for exploiting the UK's compassionate laws to attain their own ends?
- laws are made to be broken/exploited/however you want to call it. Thats how most crooks got off the hook.
How about they try applying for a skill based visa to stay on in UK to live and work?
- maybe they tried. or they just fell shy below requirements. Lots of maybes here.
Stop being such an ASIAN.(the kind that puts FACE first instead of addressing the real problems.)
I m also impressed that many of you(Non-asians) welcome this decision instead of "Oh! Not another immigrant" It shows that you all have big hearts and I salute you all.
-->Ipark. This only shows that you have got a lot more to learn about asians, rather then just your stereotype comment. :)
I also agree with skyriver72 that the Penal Code 377A is hardly a threat to gay Malaysians, or a barrier to maintaining a gay relationship. The only no-no in Malaysia (as with many other countries as well) is intimate affection of the same-sex in public... no PDA. Even if you hold hands or hugs or kisses, no one is going to arrest and punish you. For Muslim gays, their actions may be subjected to Shariah laws.
Kazukicanada made a good observation of 377A definition, albeit a Canadian =D, however if you look closely it does not apply to one's sexual identity, it is the sexual act itself (anal and oral sexual intercourse) between hetero or homosexual. If anyone should be scared, it should be Malaysians as a whole.
Anwar's case is more complicated than 377A, he was charged for rape, that's criminal, and different from consentual sex.
We can all appeal to have the clause amended for a healthier, more secure and tolerating environment for all Malaysians.
I dont see the value of this article at all to be published. It signifies stupidity and the fact that there exist such gays who take advantage of their own home country laws to gain benefits in another country.
Nevertheless, all the best to this duo couple to their new home in Britain. To me I dont see this as a good idea at all....thousands of people from Europe and America are migrating to Asia in search for opportunities.
Here in Asia, the general public defines the law. All these discriminating colonial era laws are unchanged, so called in order to "preserve Asian values". Plus no ministers or judges dare to even think of doing it because all afraid of offending the public and it may jeopardize their current position (+ politics). We, Asian countries still have got a long way to go, but eventually, eventually I hope we will reach there. But one good thing. Asians are tolerant. There is no gay bashing or killing. When they see gay behaving differently, to general public, it's just a joke. I think we are more laid back in this sense. This laid back attitude that what makes living in Asia great. :)
Dear kazukicanada, now you understand why the bashing here. Because most Asian ppl may not understood what you have explain. We are brought up in an environment where basic human rights not observe. Sometimes we can be quite selfish and discriminative. There are many Africans now in Malaysia and I see how they are being discriminated just because they are bigger built and has darker skin. ( The mentality are darker skin ppl are of lower class and higher incidence of crime rate.) Haiz....... When will the time come???
Hold up! There is no right or wrong in giving up one's citizenship. However, projecting a delusional fact is damaging. These 2 people left, we the other Malaysian's are still here living our lives, going to the bar, going to clubs, meeting in public places, getting it on in our bedroom, having a life together, working, browsing porn sites freely. Where is the fear? The police force in Malaysia is so eager with nothing to do but to wait on guys having sex with each other and put them behind bars. Seriously?
Let me shed some light about "Fear", it happens when you are caught having kinky sex in the park somewhere between Cheras (public sex is offensive in many countries even if you are gay or straight), having tested positive for drugs when there is a raid in a gay club (straight people get charged for drug use too), caught in the act in a gay sauna, the list goes on!
So should we all jump on to the next flight to the UK and have a cup of tea with the Queen? because we are in "Fear"? Total BS!!!!!!!!!!
So these 2 want to constantly hold hands in public, deep kiss each other at starbucks, grab each others bum all the time in public, and pretend it is a normal behaviour? What makes them think that they are not being discriminated in the UK? Humans evolved, we develop social etiquette's to function and co-exist in society and sustain regardless where we are.
This is straight cut counsellors case in which these 2 individuals could not fulfil the U.K's requirements to either apply for PR status or work permit!
And it's pretty amusing to see from some replies above...how green-eyed some people can be, even though they think they hide it well
;-> Methinks it's better Europe accepts GENUINE cases of asylum like these, instead of taking in *ahem* religious militants who are only instrested in milking their generous social security schemes for 'multiplying & reproduction'- literally speaking. ;-)
did i just started a RIOT ????
bring it on!
with ya charmer22!!!
Anyway Canada is not so cool as UK on this, Canada deported this persecuted Malaysian guy in 2008, who was then sought by police on his return to Malaysia and had to go into hiding...
" "Kulen is a gay man from a Hindu family who is known to police and the vice squads in Malaysia," says Mulcair's letter to Finley. "His former relationship, of 12 years, with his Muslim partner was ended by police involvement and resulted in Kulen's incarceration and torture."
Amnesty International has intervened on behalf of Kulen.
"Amnesty International believes that the rights of homosexuals cannot be protected in Malaysia, and homosexual persons should not be forcibly returned to Malaysia. The risk to Mr Amirthalingam is compounded by his identity as a Tamil Hindu," says their letter to Finley.
Deportation is planned for Mar 6.
A representative from Finley's office did not respond to our request for more information by press time."...
See http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?&STORY_ID=4444&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=2
There are conservative people around us and as much as we want to be open, we need to bear in mind that we're dealing with a different set of morality system, unlike what is being practised in Western countries. Penal Code 377A is a remnant of the past, one that was partly fuelled by Christian ideology that viewed homosexuality as a sin.
I can comfortably say that the case such as one mentioned by #37 is due to the police report lodged by the family of Kulen's ex-lover. It is unfortunate indeed but this case highlighted the very essence of morality of the community at large. Perhaps, the family of Kulen's ex-lover perceived Kulen to be the influential factor in making their son gay in the first place and they merely looking for a scapegoat to put the blame on instead of looking at different perspective, a more positive one.
Penal Code 377A has become a trophy of sort for gay activists all over the world where this British legacy still remained enforced. However, most people choose to fled rather than stay to make the change for their home country, which makes me thinking that the two Malaysian men are more influenced by economic reasons rather than because of their homosexuality. Their homosexuality is an added package for the asylum application that bolstered their case on compassion ground, given the fact that Anwar Ibrahim is currently undergoing trial for offense allegedly committed under Penal Code 377A, giving the impression that it is indeed true that gays are under prosecution in Malaysia.
Perhaps, kazukicanada can look at matters from Asian perspective who are in majority, comfortably living their current life without any hindrance from the authority rather than making a sweeping statement that gives the impression that we are really under major oppression by virtue of Penal Code 377A. It is not so much about the legislation per se, it is the society that need to be changed. Only when the society at large feel that this law is outdated, only when the society at large welcome homosexuality as part of the community, only when the society at large can stand by homosexual members in defending their rights, that will be the coming of age time for us.
or maybe it was a easier way too get the asylum in uk ???
or maybe i could learn one or a few trick in here ....and not to mention where the part gets naughty and juicy ... some people felt pity for them, which im not ... and some people just expressing their feeling .. (which is im trying to do )
i was wondeirng if Seow & Wong have planned this all along ???both still young ... bet they can make living in just fine in malaysia or was the paid too small for them ??or they just wanted to be the headline and get famous ... :D
and i was thinking, if you are too damn deperates to make a big time dont used the damn some hot "issues" as law to get tru with it ??
so what, you gay , you in malaysia , you cant live happily forever .. who said you cant ??? you just have to blend with the society ... knew your limits...
i bet, i think i seriously bet with my soul ... anyway in this world even in the gay world if they saw a gay couple making out in public they still in awe and talks and felt digust about it ....
i just so mad that these bright malaysian using some excuses to get away from their own problems and they just never knew what they could do to the other ....
i just hoping that the brits doesnt tighten up they security for malaysian to pay visited their country again, enough with the blacklist and the visa!!! after all why make things complicated when its easily things to do ..
LURRRVEEE IT ...ITS GOIN TO BE MY FAV PAGES!!!! HE HE HE ....
whether s.377 is used or not is not the issue. if i have a gun pointed at my head i would still feel nervous whether or not the person holding the gun pulled the trigger. the presence of such a law alone can affect one's human rights.
as for the economic/social arguments, malaysia with its race/religion policies seems hellbent on ensuring that while it may be first rate in heaven, it's definitely content to be a second-rate country on earth.
so good luck to anyone who says this is not acceptable, and leaves.
ben
JEALOUSY IS SUCH A NEGATIVE AND DEMEANING TRAIT.
THESE GUYS ARE DRAWING THE ATTENTION OF THE WORLD, THROUGH THE PUBLICITY , TO THE UNJUST SITUATION IN COUNTRIES SUCH AS MALAYSIA..ANWAR DID IT TOO.
DONT SPEND YOUR PINK DOLLARS IN SUCH PLACES...AND LET THEM KNOW...
"I can comfortably say that the case such as one mentioned by #37 is due to the police report lodged by the family of Kulen's ex-lover. It is unfortunate indeed but this case highlighted the very essence of morality of the community at large. Perhaps, the family of Kulen's ex-lover .............merely looking for a scapegoat to put the blame on ..... ".
Does it matter who makes the report or why ? The point is that any gay person in Malasia can be threatened with exposure, blackmailed or driven to suicide. It does not matter by whom it was introduced, what matters is that there can be frightened people unwilling to become public and work to change the laws and public perceptions ,as has happened in the more democratic and enlightened western states. Buddhism , a religion of many Chinese, does not preach that kind of hate. Thank God.
Pardon me for being rude, but what has it gotta do with you?
They may have gotten it with other valid reasons plus the legal system. ( Am not a law student)
Or yes, they could have utilized the loophole to their own convenience as mentioned.
Ultimately, its their lives. Neither do I see them in any sense representing Malaysia as a whole.
Isnt it ridiculous to use one example as an illustration of the whole community?
Main point is, why does it cause such uproar/dispute within ourselves?
Perhaps with different upbringing, cultures, personal life experiences, our views may differ.
But I suppose, even if we cant totally agree with what others perceive, it is not necessary to convince otherwise.
Am sure anyone will welcome constructive comments,
but I guess we could try lessen personal insults?
seriously i just really hate when people are so deperate they just do anything that leading to a big mess to someone else life ...
get asylum ?? after being gay last month ??depite low success ?? i think i can sum it all,they being such a LAZY arse.....
WANT SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE ?? GO AND EARN IT, WORK HARD THATS THE RIGHT WAY not trashing bad mouth about your own damn country! and again its all my own opinion!!!!
And, no, Ive did a brief read through on the comments, the couples in the mentioned article is not "gay since last month", it's a grammar context.. oh dear dear.. The entire sentence meant they have got their asylum since last month, IMO.
Apologies beforehand for any mistakes omitted from not reading the entire long hate/counter-remarks.
I'd also suggest worshipers of mainstream news in Malaysia to get a life, and a brain at the same time by reading http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia and understand what the bloodyfuck is going on in Malaysia.
Apologies, once again, to any offense made. Unless of course, you bunch of clowns can't understand what "apologies" mean.
I do agreed with Ipark @ 7. Might not be MOST Asian Gay living in UK, but Some Gaysian ,specially those you see in Centre london, were no quality, poor manners, cheap, have no respect for other, not even themself, and no wonder most white guys treat asians as a piece of meat that they can do whatever they want....
However, I was most pleased to read 'kazukicanada's various writings as well as those by 't4b' and 'zeltish'. I concur with you wholeheartedly.
Back to the case of these two guys who have claimed refugee status on the basis of their sexual oriental.
Some of you claim or suspect -without any ground- they may have had an hidden agenda, some insinuated they were bad citizens for leaving the country, some indicated that their country is not livable if you take the basic necessary precautions whatever that may mean
but plainly -at least for me- stay in the closet, shut your mouth...and all will be 'wine and roses.
Well these guys did not think that 'it gets better' and left the country. Since one is considered innocent before proven guilty, I shall -not even give them the benefit of the doubt- I will, accept -because I have no cause to the contrary- accept fully and without reservations their wish for another kind of life they had previously in their country based on their sexual orientation which the case put to the English court.
Maybe these two guys had in mind the Asean Charter, Chapter 2 'Purposes and Principles', Article 1 'Purposes' and have read the 11th purpose: "To enhance the well being and livelihood of the Peoples of Asean by providing with equitable access to
opportunities for human development, social welfare and justice."
Surely these two guys had in mind...
'Under Section 377 of the Malaysian Penal Code, is an offense classified as "carnal intercourse against the order of nature", a convicted person may be punished with imprisonment of up to 20 years and also liable to fine or whipping.'
It is true that until very recently most requests to obtain refugee status in the U.K based on sexual preference (i.e by returning home being exposed to grave sanctions) were seldom granted (98% refusals between 2005 and 2009) and in spite of the UK having signed and adhered to the U.N 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees which stipules:
'The United Nations 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees provides that members of social groups are entitled to asylum in states that are parties to the convention if they can establish a well-founded danger or fear of persecution if they returned to their home country.'
Unfortunately, up to 2009, all applicants had to pass a 'tolerance test' (were they to return to their country) which was contrary to the Refugee Convention, to which the UK is a signatory
The UK landmark decision happened in June 2010 while an African gay man was seeking refugee status. The U.K Supreme court judge, Lord Hope, took the following new, fair and within the spirit of the U.N Convention decision :
"To compel a homosexual person to pretend that his sexuality does not exist or suppress the behaviour by which to manifest itself is to deny his fundamental right to be who he is"....
"Homosexuals are as much entitled to freedom of association with others who are of the same sexual orientation as people who are straight."
The decision creates a complete change in the approach that will be taken by tribunals and courts to applications for asylum by gay people, as all future applications of a similar nature will have to apply the Supreme Court's guidance...and this is precisely
how these two Malaysian guys did benefit from the June 2010 landmark ruling.
Chief executive of gay lobby group Stonewall, Ben Summerskill, when welcoming Lord Hope's ruling said:
"Demanding that lesbian or gay people return home to conceal their sexuality bears no resemblance to the reality of gay life in many countries".
Point taken !
I sincerely hope this writing stops further unfair bickering.
Seow Shih Yung and Wong Yu Xiu, take care, keep well. I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
...THEIR COUNTRY IS LIVABLE'''
RATHER THAN
THEIR COUNTRY IS NOT LIVABLE.
Apologies.
thats all .. so to wong and seow ...not proud with what you doing i guess you guys got to do what you have to do then!
Please say on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
......issues like in Singapore or Malaysia is a decision to keep criminalizing gays an act of persecution ( a loaded gun)
...is banning gay groups that want to put forward their point of view an act of persecution
....is police stopping and filming a group of gays going for a run together an act of persecution
...is prosecuting politicians for supposedly being gay an act of persecution
...is allowing the blackmail of gay citizens an act of persecution
....is firing openly gay teachers as a "bad role model" an act of persecution
...is banning any portrayal on TV or film of gay people in happy and successful relationships an act of persecution
....is raiding the meeting places of gays an act of persecution
...is targeting troublesome community leaders for politically expedient drugs raids an act of persecution
...is stopping HIV sufferers having the same access to lifesaving drugs as other people because of "moral disapproval" an act of persecution
...is letting radical religious groups decide what rights gay people should have an act of persecution
...is stopping discussion of these issues by trolling gay discussion boards and starting fake arguments an act of persecution
...well as a troll myself I say no, none of this is persecution... its just lots of fun... people should love their country and ignore its shortcoming and just sit down and STFU!! ;)
I think that those who are very critical e.g. kudin85 have massive chips on their shoulders. I myself "escaped" to the UK in the early 80's so that I could live freely as a gay man and no, that does not mean that I want to behave licentiously in public! As for Charmer22 making such rude comments on someone's profile pics,it just shows how shallow he is.
#67
Another one bites the dust! Go figure!!!!!!!!
100% correct
" As for Charmer22 making such rude comments on someone's profile pics,it just shows how shallow he is. "
I don't agree.
" Prior to this, even LGBTs who could prove that they were tortured and risked death had their asylum applications rejected. "
Did u ever read the rulings? Legal complications are not as simple as you can imagine. The court has to evaluate and gather enough evidents (well, it is the duty of the plaintiff. Sometimes we encounter bad or inexperienced lawyers. Therefore, there are so many factors affect asylum application base on 377 or whatever the case is. It is not something you apply you get. U have to remember, the judge might not know about 377 in that country well, perhaps the applicant had been living in certain countries (sensitive countries) without very clear evident to prove he did not involve any terrorist training that might post dangerous to his/her country. Well, legal systems are very complicated. Therefore we should not make the judgment as what we see in the press.
These 2 guys got it. We are happy for them because they can live freely and happily in the country they want. I don't think they had any intention to talk about Malaysia 377 or represent Malaysian gays. Well, I believe online information are widely available about 377 in any countries that still using it to discrimate gays. Don't have to spend time condemn them like many guys here, go to other websites that directly talking bad about Malaysia 377, not these 2 guys. Give them a break. Be happy for them. If you feel living under 377 is fine for u, continue your life there, no one is asking u to migrate. Right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maQK3jNrg9E
well we all understand how gay live in asian country especially gay...Being gay is being labelled as mentally sick..And gay couples are not allow to even hold hand,,let alone other things that normal couple can do... Maybe u may not feel discriminated like this, but not to other ppl..And its good that they finally can live like normal couple in uk now...I admire them alot...
Lol here we go again, 1st pea brain cutting and pasting comments, as usual not having any point to his/her comments. Your vulva looks swollen from the picture by the way, lube much?
Where is your accomplice? the 2nd pea brain? Still marinating on what to say?
Come on bitches......humour me!!!!!
so bring it on!! say what ever fuck you want to say but for ssure you just cant handle the freedom of speech!!! and btw joesheff the writer even type that "both are feared to practise their homosexual relationship openly ... are you blind or simply an idiot ...
and kazuki just leave the 377 alone ... why the heck its so damn important to you ... you are damn canadian or japanese .. go learn your law rather than bashing other country law .. beside who are you ??? the top lawyer in the world im afraid not!!! just fucking other country law , or was it just a pain in the arse to keep you shut!
i dont care if this get deleted .. so write to the fridae management,crying like a bitch saying im talking too much vulgar or it just simply show that you cant take it!!! and why shld i care about it!!! you fire me ... im just simply fire back at you BITCH!!
hahaha. Interesting feedback. I enjoyed reading it. Keep it up. Can't b fun without even stronger negative reactions from u. U are right, 377 does not apply to you because u will be under Islamic laws, perhaps be executed by your religion leader.
Just for your information. 377 is not exclusive for Malaysia only. hahahaha
My Malaysian friend said this to u.
"Malaysia Boleh, Apa boleh ? U think 377 was made in Malaysia like Proton car?" "If Kazuki is damn Japanese and Canadian. Perhaps u have to naik Babi as your mood of transport. hahaha. U better of Stop using Japanese products and Technology, then I will tell u Malaysian Boleh."
If u want to exchange personal attack with people from developed nations. Look around what u are using. None of them are made from Malaysian brain. Stop fucking around if u don't have cock."
I would not complain to Fridae anymore because there is no way a stupid Malaysian like u will ever have stronger facts to fire back. Hey, make sure the gun isn't originated from North America. Use Malaysia made water gun is better. Safe and Sound. hahahaha
Malaysian Chinese said "Sorry if Kazuki and I hurt u too much. Please cry if u want. Waiting for your water gun feedback."
Hey, other readers, don't take it serious here because many stupid Malaysians around. Not all Malaysians are stupid, just some few bad apples make "Malaysia apa boleh, cakap banjak boleh sahaja"
The above statement are from Kazuki and Malaysian Chinese.
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fyi, dont label others stupid .. shld i gave you a lovely nice big mirror so that you able to see your face???? for who doesnt write and spell right??
wake up!! .. and yeah ask your friend to make their on account to write the feedback or rather asking you to post it .. WHAT A SHAME , did you lose your balls?i bet you do ...
and this goes esp to the malaysian chinese.. shame on you ... you shld read what he(kazuki) wrote abt the chinese when he BS ,nampak sgtla ko nie dungu kan ??? does 13 may , familiar to you ?? or been busy lobbying for kazuki ??? buka mata la ah chai!
i think chamer rite .. you aint nothing but just a simply #%^@^*
ha ha ha ha lmao
I think u better stop talking too much before you make your own country in shame. Wanna play personal attack, please find those guys in developing nations. Don't fight with ppl like me because Canada and Japane have never claimed we boleh but we have actions, INVENTION. This is call "BOLEH". Understood now?
Cyberbully is bad. I don't like it but I have no choice to play with some of u guys here. Boleh boleh boleh. Jangan cakap banyak. Malu sendiri.
Regards,
Canadian and Japanese grass and his Malaysian supporters.
produce nothing looks like you know nothing ...u just simply a silly empty can that make alot of noise ... done with this BS, backing off not because i have nothing to say but why shld i entertaint it more ....
so long sucker...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCfWE_TJpSw
I am not sure whether u can view this youtube.
So, be nice to people in the forum, don't use personal attack when you whole body is full of bad smell.
Hope u are the new general of Malay. Give the minority races with a fair treatment. Make them feel really Malaysian. Deep inside their heart, how to really feel pround if u r being treated as second class. Your God will bless u more when u know how to take care of His creaters. Don't forget, He created Babi also.
Regards
Malaysian (minority race)
Sorry, guys, I have to hide to prevent ISA to hunt me.
Give them a break. Don't have to condemn them anymore. Take care of your own second class citizen issue is better than talking bad of them. At the end, u r still nothing better than them. Tell me, "Malaysia Boleh or UK Boleh"? Grass in the West or developed nations are still much better than Malaysia for sure. There is no heaven even in developed nations, but as a developed nation like Canada. We are fully democratic and will continue bring up many issues into consideration, improvement and adjustment through the democratic ways. No fucking ISA to shut our mouth.
Give u some real emocratic examples in the politic of Canada, which can never happen even in my native country in Japan. This is called full democracy. Governor General of Canada is the person who represents Our Queen - Queen Elizabeth in the parliament and Canada. GG will sign new registration before it becomes law.
1) Michaelle Jean was the Governor General of Canada. She is a black woman, migrated here as a refugee when she was 8 years old.
http://www.gg.ca/document.aspx?id=41
2) Adrienne Clarkson was the Government General of Canada. She came to Canada as a refugee, with her parents, after her family was forced to leave by the Japanese aggressive, invasion of Hong Kong in 1941.
Look at these 2 ladies, refugee became the highest ranking officer in Canada and present the Queen. Don't have to argue if the grass in the West is not greener than Asia. I believe, it will be less than 30 years, our future Prime Minister will be either Chinese or Indian. Nothing is impossible in Canada. No one stop u who u want to be. U are the only one who stop yourself from progressive. Are u more capable than these two Canadian refugees? We have room for u to be our Queen's presentative. The honorable of the Governor General of Canada.
Regards
Kazukicanada
These are the type of people that would turn their back on the simple truth and run for cover because they just can't the heat.
Hey cunt face, in this age of day japanese vehicles are not solely made in japan, internal parts and workings of the car may come from China, India, yes these goes for other car manufacturers too around the globe, if you had a bigger pea brain you would read more! So please don't start being patriotic and mentioning such thing as if the country you ditched owe it to you big time to do their marketing for them, obviously you were rejected! Yawn!
I won't be so evil to state the obvious, but you and your dogs should buy a blow fish and slice it into bite sizes and eat it raw!!!!! Yummmmmmmmy!
"A lot of people in general criticises their own country. However, a certain japanese cunt face runaway refugee living Canada and his herd of dogs are just plain idiots in what seems to be a misrepresentation of themselves, and as global citizen in the 21st century."
I certainly can understand why you don't it in Malaysia. It is simple, ISA. How to do if u can be jailed if u talk about your government policies? Even in Canada, we openly criticise our government in order to get our voice heard. This is called Democracy. Our government encourage us to voices our view and opinions in order to make Canada a better place to live. Even in Japan. We don't have Internal Security Act to control our mouth. Neither we have 377 to control our ass. Young man, wake up. I told u, grass in Canada and Japan is greener. Even the mind. I think u are old enough to go to internet find more about the laws and freedom in the developed nations who don't have ISA and 377. Then u will appreciate how much we enjoy our lives here. Let me tell u, look at our 2 refugees who became our Government General. What do u feel? Jealous or admire? U have a serious inferoior complex. U r the real out put of Malaysian second class citizen. Malay boleh, boleh, oh Chinese tak boleh la. Hey, babi, Tanah Malayu, bukan China.
"Hey cunt face, in this age of day japanese vehicles are not solely made in japan, internal parts and workings of the car may come from China, India, yes these goes for other car manufacturers too around the globe, if you had a bigger pea brain you would read more!"
My gosh! Did u go to school? I am sure u don't have a degree. When Toyota makes money, where does the profit goes? Of cause back to Japan. How to be G7 countires without taking back the money we make. hahaha Do u have BlackBerry? It is owned by Canadian. Canadian brand. We make a lot of money by using cheap labor like China and Malaysia. That's why we call our invention, that's why they r developed nation not boleh boleh at the end, no invention for any kind of goods. In order to be superpower in econmy, you need inventions and own the brands, where the products or parts are made are actually the advantage of the brand owner because they can achieve better profit at the end and of cause, bring back the money to the real owner. That is how the rich becomes richer. Look at your Proton, where is the teachnology come from? Your skytrain and subway? Even your twin towers, all from the west or Japan. That's why we are richer. Basic economy theory. Time to back to school to learn more instead of spending time in this forum talking nonesense.
"I won't be so evil to state the obvious, but you and your dogs should buy a blow fish and slice it into bite sizes and eat it raw!!!!! Yummmmmmmmy!"
Sorry, I don't know what u r talking about. Certainly the language that normal people can't understand.
Charmer 22. Is it fun giving personal attack statement in return making yourself look stupid? Let me tell u a simple way to become a developed nation, we learned in our secondary school. "Our voice and constantly feedback to our law makers and politicians are very important to make Canada a better place to live - Make Canada Canada" I love Canada and Japan but I have a duty to critize my government when the politicians are not making the right decisions or policies for us. Freedom of speech is guaranteed in our Chartered of rights and freedoms. It was created in 1982 by our own government to reduce the power of parliament, law makers and politicians. In history, we proved that the biggest builier is still the government. Therefore the Chartered is so important to protect Canadians being abused by Canadian government. Now u know why gays enjoy the same rights as straight people. When a same sex partner dies, the next of kin is his/her partner. It is like straight people. That's Why the retirement law became invalid due to contradicting to the Chartered?
I can really feel your feelings living in this kind of environment. Anwar Ibrahim has been charged twice in 377 because he talks too much and critize the rulling government. Charmer 22, Do u know u can love your country and at the same time talking bad about it freely is a duty of all Canadian and Japanese citizens? I feel so lucky and proud of my native country - Japan and Canada after I know u more.
Technology is transferable, don't preach to me about your cut and paste facts. Another fact, expertise and knowledge is use and shared across the world, you are definitely thinking like a person without education, I don't blame you, you are just born incompetent. Any person or entity don't have to own everything to call themselves great!
I am glad to enlighten you anytime so that you will not get into an identity situation, after all these bashings you finally get it, however, much improvement needed from your side.
Oh about the blow fish, its simple let me explain. Blow fish are poisonous you see, only experts knows how to slice and dish out the edible parts, and I was very sure you don't know how to slice it, so that's why I'm asking you to do so.
Basically asking you to go die, but in a non- violent way!
Make peace and agree to disagree. It is only natural that in the course of freedom of speech, there tend to be disagreement of sort. I have to admit that I agree with charmer22 when it comes to living life as a gay man in Malaysia and while there is always a legal recourse to it, it is more towards the perceived culture than legal nature of it.
There is always two side of the coins here and while Canadian legal system works perfectly for Canada, Malaysian legal system works perfectly for Malaysia. However, by saying perfect, it doesn't mean it shuts the door to further modification and improvement. What I am saying is that the system evolves. It will take time to mature and living in this society, with all its shortcomings and advantages, I come to appreciate the sky I am holding above my head.
The grass would always appears to be greener on the other side. It is a natural human perception. Anyhow, all the opinions expressed here show that we can be a community of gays but we too, have different and dissenting views about things. There are no rights or wrongs here, only what is appropriate for the current time and situation.
Oh, they don't have this problem in countries that were once under the thumb of France. Like Vietnam. France abolished anti-gay laws way back under Napoleon --- 200 years ago!
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