Fridae

It's not perfect but it would be a good start. I hope it passes this time.

good news for you, @osongbosong :)

no @hylander, still not good news, it will be a LONG LONG time until Filipinos understand true gay equality .. and @GoodbyeMrA, it's NEVER perfect, because Filipinos will never allow any gay equality into their country .. as long as they are proud and practicing Catholics, it will never happen, not anytime soon

@hylander - the problem with @osongbosong is, as he has told us, that he hates his homophobic parents and family and will not come out of the closet in part because of them. So what happens in The Philippines really matters little to him.

"So what happens in The Philippines really matters little to him"

you're right sir, i don't bother, since the people there don't do much to embrace homosexuality as a whole .. hence they're stupid .. Indonesians fare much more worse and treat their homosexuals just like they do in some African countries

Interesting comment @osongbosong. You have stated before in this forum that you are very much in the closet. So what does it matter to you what happens in The Philippines. Nothing whatsoever! If The Philippines ruled in favour of some form of civil partnerships, you still wouldn't come out, would you, if only because your family are so homophobic? So your comments are worthless!

"So your comments are worthless!"


oh my heavens to betsy, honey .. excuse you sir, but my comments are never worthless, for they happen to be written in the ENGLISH language, you know, YOUR language :) so i suppose any comment written in YOUR language would never ever be considered worthless .. and you are totally wrong, i really could care less whatever happens in the Philippines anyway, no matter what happens in that country .. Filipinos will, and get this straight into your head, sir, NEVER EVER be in favour of civil partnerships, because of their religious views and their traditional conservative views as well .. it just won't ever happen, so your hypothetical comment is worthless .. oh i'm so sorry, it's in the ENGLISH language, so of course it's pure gold isn't it?

Oh my goodness! So you now twist the conversation to a matter of language. What has that go to do with it?? You choose to live in a closet bubble in the liberal state of California, you come across in your comments as having an intense dislike of your family members and an even greater loathing of the country which is part of our heritage. When The Philippines is mentioned in these columns, you appear to morph into a paroxysm of hatred.

How on this good earth do you know what will happen in The Philippines in the next few years or next decade? You don't! In the 1980s few believed Hong Kong would change the law and decriminalise homosexuality. Then in 1990 it did.

Taiwan was an ultra conservative Chinese society. When Martial law entered its 38th year in mid-1987, absolutely no Taiwanese ever considered it would not only become one of the most socially advanced countries in terms of LGBT acceptance but that it would be the first country in Asia to pass gay marriage legislation. After decades of war and millions of their countrymen slaughtered, who would have thought that Vietnam, a communist-controlled conservative society, would have a gay marriage bill before its legislature?

@oosngbosong has absolutely no clue what is likely to happen in The Philippines in terms of greater LGBT acceptance - none of us have.

@gunoilh2o Well said. Never say never, one thing for sure is that the future always surprises you. It's like @osongbosong is too close-minded to be living in the US. But he's probably just too emotionally charged when it comes to speaking about the Philippines.

To be honest, the tension with mainland China is one of the major factors that lead to the marriage legislation, don't you think @gunoilh2o?

BTW, keep it up you guys :)

for someone that lives in Indonesia, a country that has an ever bigger hatred and dislike for homosexuality, hylander, your comments are preposterous if anything else, and whether i am "emotionally charged" about the Philippines doesn't matter, since that country will never be accepting of homosexuality in general .. pretty much like Indonesia? if you get the hint .. and you're right mr. gunoilh2o, we don't know what will happen with the Philippines, but i'm filipino/american myself, i have a more better idea just how these people think, which you don't, sir .. so if you say that "none of us" is likely to know what will happen in the struggle of acceptance of gays in the Philippines, i do suggest you not bother coming up with such hypotheses of what will happen in that country

"Oh my goodness!"


oh you're badness, honey! because i STILL cannot block your comments on this site, how disappointing indeed


"BTW, keep it up you guys"


i guess i will keep going if the old man wants to be a total bitch about it, and that i once again am unable to block his comments and still see what he writes

@hylander - I certainly believe tensions between Taiwan and China had nothing to do with the gay marriage vote. My first visit to Taiwan was during martial law in 1986 and I have many friends there, gay and straight. The change in thinking about LHBT issues occurred slowly and was started by a small group of of passionate LGBT activists. This group realised it had to keep the bulk of the population onside. These people were extremely clever. Even though by the turn of the century Taiwan had just a small commercial gay scene with few gay bars and saunas, the first Gay Pride March took place in 2003. This just grew and grew. When I attended my first March there in 2011 I noticed the intention was to spread a message of love and inclusion. I also noticed that quite a few families with young children were joining the march. Over the years, I have loved the Taipei Pride march.

I believe Taiwan succeeded in introducing gay marriage largely because the message was being spread by ordinary Taiwan citizens. I compare it with the Thailand LGBT movement and its Pride marches in Bangkok in the early 2000s. These were run almost exclusively by commercial gay establishments with most of the marchers being the boys who worked in the bars and clubs. There was no real community involvement. Not surprisingly, Bangkok has not had a Gay Pride march for about 15 years.

@osongbosong - you made these statements
1. "i'm filipino/american myself, i have a more better idea just how these people think, which you don't"
2. " guess i will keep going if the old man wants to be a total bitch about it, and that i once again am unable to block his comments and still see what he writes"

1. Oh dear! Oh dear! You have told us you are Filipino-American. You have told us you have an active dislike of your family. You have told us you have a similar dislike bordering on loathing of The Philippines. You have told us you are very firmly locked in the closet. I am sure readers will be very interested to know how many times you have visited The Philippines? How many Filipinos actually living in that country do you regularly chat to? And I don't mean fellow expatriate Filipinos in the USA!

I am prepared to bet that I have been in the country more times than you over the course of your lifetime. You have a monstrous chip on your shoulder because of your own personal inability to openly accept that you are gay. You have told us that! That colours everything you write, and your failure to understand that is typical of a closed mind. Do yourself a favour. Get out of that claustrophobic closet and start enjoying life!

2. There is no rule that says you have to read anything anyone writes here. You can easily skip comments, but you choose not to do so. That's your problem! It does not matter to me one whit whether you agree with what I say or what names you choose to call me. So I'm a bitch? Fine, if that description fits your closeted mind, it's perfectly fine with me. You have called me names before. But let me give you one piece of advice. Before you start calling others names, look to your own situation, look to your own small world, look to the reality you have created for yourself. You have created the reality - by your own choice - of a small-minded (in terms of The Philippines), closet gay middle-aged man who is clearly extremely frustrated and equally clearly angry that others who have accepted their LGBT status happen to enjoy their lives, enjoy being gay, enjoy their friendships with other gays and in many cases live happily with another gay man.

Small narrow-focused minds have a tendency to close pretty quickly.

> For someone that lives in Indonesia, a country that has an ever bigger hatred and dislike for homosexuality, hylander, your comments are preposterous if anything else,

@osongbosong Which of my comments are you referring to? That the future always surprises you?

Yes, Indonesia probably has less chance for recognizing LGBT rights officially or legalizing same-sex union. For now. You never know what will happen in the future. There have been many changes happening here in recent years and couple of decades that surprise almost everyone including many Indonesians themselves. From female president, a Chinese ethnic and a non-moslem becoming governor, a country being spun out (Timor Leste), new provinces being created, and so on. Concluding that nothing will ever change and not willing to even entertain the idea that a chance is possible is the very definition of close-mindedness. So I was right.

"A wise man changes his mind, a fool never will."

that's good that mr. guns and hylander agree with each other on things, maybe those two should bang on the beds sometime and copulate tremendously whenever possible since you both have the same brain and think too much alike .. yes i am frustrated because Filipinos won't and don't ever bother to understand how homosexuality truly works, i should have every right to be frustrated with a family that doesn't know any better and think inside of a box, just like every other Filipino, much less every other Indonesian and pretty much all Asians too .. back to the stone age they go

.. and i STILL can't blacklist that old man, honey! damn damn damn damn damnit!!!

my mistake was agreeing with the old man on certain things, i definitely take all that back now, shay whitey honey

@gunoilh2o I think I need to shut up after this and read/research more since I know little about Taiwan history much less when it comes to LGBT rights, but I read somewhere that there was an incident a few years ago where a gay student was bullied in school and ended up taking his own life. This became widely publicized and opened people's eyes about LGBT issues (as well as bullying). That probably played a role too. Or maybe the activists managed to take advantage of this incident for their own good. Or a little bit of both.

that's good that Taiwan is making strides and effort in opening their eyes, unlike SOME Asian countries that are closed minded

osongbosong - "that's good that Taiwan is making strides and effort in opening their eyes, unlike SOME Asian countries that are closed minded"

It's amazing what closed, closeted minds cannot see until they emerge from the closet and finally are able to view the world as it really is, other than as their closed minds imagine it to be!

"It's amazing what closed, closeted minds cannot see until they emerge from the closet and finally are able to view the world as it really is, other than as their closed minds imagine it to be!"


it's called a LEARNING EXPERIENCE, sir, something that those other Filipinos don't do, much less Indonesians i suppose, them people don't wanna observe and learn, they just wanna get stupid and live the traditional conservative life in accordance to religion and other gods .. but you seem to know everything of course, praise your brain, sir .. let it educate those closed minded people like me i guess, huh? *APPLAUDES you* .. but sorry, i am no longer agreeing with you and your bitchery .. don't need no bitchslaps outta you, honey

you know sir, not even my more POSITIVE comments seem to satisfy and please you does it? that's what you get when you agree with a bitch

obongbong - "they just wanna get stupid and live the traditional conservative life"

Now that really is funny coming, as it does, from a middle-aged man who is so conservative he is not only terrified of coming out of his closet he cannot believe others do not share his hatreds. And that sort of comment is sadly just so typical. Those locked in the closet are generally inward looking, narrow minded, frustrated and unfulfilled. Kinda describes you to a T obonbong, doesn't it?

obongbong - "i am no longer agreeing with you and your bitchery .. don't need no bitchslaps outta you, honey"

Now that series of name calling really is both sad and funny at the same time. A sad closet gay has no alternative but to resort to calling others names because he is totally unable to express his point of view. Who uses "bitch" and "bitchslap" nowadays? Who calls a man who disagrees completely with his comments "honey"? Only someone who does not mix in gay society but takes these 1980s phrases in the gay literature he reads to console himself at night and then hides them somewhere so that the Mummy and Daddy he so dislikes cannot find them. So childlike! Be a man obongbong!

Incidentally I like my new name for you. Kinda reminds me of Ferdinand Marcos' son. Hahaha!

Obongbong - Oh I forgot! Apart from your loathing of The Philippines and now Indonesia, your only comments in recent weeks have been to call gay Singaporeans "fruity" (who on earth calls any gay man "fruity" nowadays - only closet queens it seems) and to call Cambodia a "stone-age" country. In the right of Cambodia's recent history, the latter is one of the most shameful, disgusting and disgraceful comments I have ever seen in any chat room - ever. Your knowledge of Asia is virtually non-existent and when you comment you are mostly dead wrong. I hope all Asians reading fridae note your comments and realise you are not someone they would wish to associate with.

Enjoy your closet obongbong!

i am generalizing as a whole, and yes, it was a stereotype on my part, but then that's how it is for the MOST part .. most Asian countries are "stone aged" for their lack of sensitivity and compassion for homosexuals .. and yes people still use the term "fruit" or "fruity" to a gay guy, just like Filipinos still think it is OK to call someone a "bakla" to a gay guy, which is also considered a gay slur .. that term is still prevalent in their culture, it's unfortunate, but it's still there, just like when you're gay and you get called out a piece of fruit .. and why you keep putting me down so much over my being in the closet just because i have a Filipino family that can't accept nor is accepting of gays? just like so many Filipinos, there is such a thing, there are people who can't move forward and still can't accept it .. that is where i got the term "stone age" from .. what is so disgraceful and shameful about that, when it's MOSTLY and on the WHOLE part true anyway? it's another Asian country that won't let go of tradition and their relgious views, it's very unfortunate, but (MOST, i said "MOST") Asians continue that point of view .. and frankly sir, your bitchery and the rest of you is someone i don't wish to associate it either, thanks for reminding me of that :) if i could only block you, and i say this once again, from these forums, i would be happy to, because i am trying to voice my opinions on matters such as these and you are just bitching out over them, obviously we aren't on the same page, and i just HAD to agree with whatever arguments you made on certain issues .. i honest don't even recall mentioning gay Sings being "fruity", but if i did, i am not apologizing, for the fact that again, Filipinos love to use the word "bakla" to call their gays, HONEY! and as far as Ferdinand Marcos is concerned, i only regard him as nothing more than a dictator with no heart for his country, i only wish the Filipino people wouldn't have taken 30 some years to realize what he was doing to their country, but what's done is done .. and i honestly don't know why you bring him and his family into this discussion anyway? what is your point and what about his son that you know so much about?

"Now that series of name calling really is both sad and funny at the same time."


for someone who does nothing but refute my reasoning and claims, yes you are indeed a bitch, and that's what you are doing, sir .. i even respect you whole heartedly and call you "sir", but you just keep on tossing all your jackassery around and refuse to hear out my reasons .. so yes, once again, you're a bitch

i still don't know why you bothered bringing in Marcos and his family into this discussion anyway, what (Ferdinand) Marcos did was put the entire Philippines into bloody chaos and turmoil .. Filipino politicians and gays is like mixing a bag of peanut butter and avocados .. they just don't mix well together in the first place

this is the primary reason why Filipino congress won't ever pass this, they always love to put religion and God above all things first .. again, it just doesn't sound good when you mix Filipino politics and the topic of homosexuality together in one bag

"So childlike! Be a man obongbong!"


says the man who has the nerve to post a pic of himself riding on a yellow frog or yellow child toy, or a yellow children's piggy back of a thang, in a playground or park, sir (in your 2nd profile pic, in case you didn't notice)? i mean, only CHILDREN are supposed to be riding on that yellow thang, if i'm not mistaken?? so childlike indeed, HONEY!

obongbong - can you actually read? I have told you that like all members of this forum you DO NOT HAVE TO READ ANY COMMENTS HERE. But of course, you know I am right, therefore masochistically you cannot tear yourself away from my postings. Oh la la! Someone cannot make up his mind.

To refer to countries in Asia and the majority of their peoples as stone-age is a frightful, disgraceful and disgusting view. It is also a total lie! I am surprised you even elect to be a member of this site which is essentially to link Asians with their admirers in other parts of the world. If you think so little of Asians, what on this good earth makes you wish to be a member here - apart from continuously calling me "bitch"? Believe me! You can call me what you will. It will not stop me from commenting on utterly stupid and out of date comments.

You cannot even see a joke when it stares you in your face. That photo you refer to was taken by my boyfriend as a joke - sorry, I know that will make you feel jealous because you are in a locked closet of your own making and do not have a boyfriend who likes to take jokes. You don't even have the courage to post any photo whatever in your profile - even if it is just of your feet. Frankly my photos do not faze me in the slightest. But your closeted mind sees the photo you refer to as something different, as probably all closet gays do. I happen to enjoy jokes. I happen also to enjoy my life.

Start making sense when you post and I will happily agree with you. When you write nonsense, i will be there to pick up on it and call you out.

You say you are trying to voice your opinions. Obongong, you only have one opinion! The Philippines is in the stone-age. OK, we get it! There is no need to keep repeating it ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

This is a great world. Asia is a great continent. It is the continent that will rule the world as the west continues its decline. And as that happens, you will age and become more irritable and angry within the narrowing walls of your closet. If you actually opened the door and let yourself out into freedom, you might discover that i am actually right!

PS: Oh! And yes. You did call gay people "fruity". Just look back at your postings. Don''t try to deny it. Oh well, since you probably won't even bother looking, I'll even quote it for you to save you the trouble -

"these Singaporeans have the same problem .. i just don't get it, just because you're a fruity doesn't mean you lose your masculinity"

What an idiotic comment!

@gunoilh2o "Those locked in the closet are generally inward looking, narrow minded, frustrated and unfulfilled." Now I'll have to disagree with you and side with @osongbosong here. Being in the closet is a choice. Due to circumstances such as family (where someone might already have a spouse before fully realizing his sexual orientation, for example), society's acceptance, career consideration, or other factors, which might even include safety over one's life, people might decide to stay in the closet. It does not have to mean they are close minded, inward-looking, frustrated, or unfulfilled.

@hylander - I actually agree with you, but only up to a point. I know four men of roughly my age who were all married with at least two children each. One was Austrian, one British, one American and one Australian. They eventually realised they were basically gay, discussed it with their wives and all came to amicable divorces. I recently had dinner with one friend along with his present boyfriend and his two grown up daughters. Everyone got on famously.

I also accept that some people feel they have to stay in the closet for a variety of reasons. I have no issue with that. It took me until my 30s to come out. What I totally object to is someone in his 40s or 50s attacking Asian countries for their "stone-age" attitudes to gay men and gay liberation when they themselves are firmly locked in their own closet. And especially, when they have no personal experience of those countries because they have never even visited them! You surely have to agree that @obongong's comments on Cambodia and gays in Singapore were utterly disgraceful.

In my view, people who elect to live in the closet have no right to comment on other people and other countries when it comes to gay issues. Before I moved to Asia I lived as a gay man without my family being aware of it. My country was extremely conservative at that time. @obongbong lives in the United States in one of its most liberal states. If he elects at his age to continue living in a closet of his own making, he is perfectly entitled to do so. But anyone who does not mix with gay men and in fact deliberately avoids them, has no right to comment on gay issues. No matter how brilliant they may be in other aspects of their lives, when it comes to gay issues I am sorry if it upsets you but I consider they are close minded and inward looking.

This happens to be one of @obongbong's comments from an earlier thread relating to The Philippines -

"why bother with someone's personal affairs or their business when your country is so fucked up to begin with? that's how Filipino handle things, with gossip, chismis, talk talk talk, but never do the walk walk walk."

Well, obongbong himself does not "walk walk walk" - he only "talks talks talks". Unless he is prepared to walk he has no right to get away with such stupid comments.

"I also accept that some people feel they have to stay in the closet for a variety of reasons. I have no issue with that."

yes sir, you definitely issues with it, especially when i discuss about being in the closet, don't deny and lie about that

"They eventually realised they were basically gay, discussed it with their wives and all came to amicable divorces. I recently had dinner with one friend along with his present boyfriend and his two grown up daughters. Everyone got on famously."

you always seem to think that everything is on the up-side and everything is so Mary Poppins-like in the gay world, well it's not .. please take note that there are still SOME people who are not ready to come out, and who are NOT ready to accept gays or homosexuality all together, this is what i have been arguing about all along .. it's not fair and it's not right that there were still people (hence my entire family) that think like this .. yet you sir, turn a blind eye to the whole thing and just flat out ridicule my comments and reasoning .. Filipinos are not ready to wholly accept their gays in their country, why do you think there is a movie with Eddie Garcia out with an elderly man who's still married to his wife yet cheats on the side with a man? there are marriages like this in the Philippines, otherwise they would not show it in a movie, whether it is fiction or not .. now don't you think this kind of a sham marriage is wrong, sir? but now, you just like to pepper it with your Mary Poppins-like justifications and logic .. that's you indeed sir, the old timer using that "Mary Poppins logic" with some bitchery thrown in for good measure to make and state his case .. it is NOT all happy go lucky in the gay world, sir, please remember that some Asian countries still don't understand homosexuality well

"Being in the closet is a choice. Due to circumstances such as family (where someone might already have a spouse before fully realizing his sexual orientation, for example), society's acceptance, career consideration, or other factors, which might even include safety over one's life, people might decide to stay in the closet. It does not have to mean they are close minded, inward-looking, frustrated, or unfulfilled."

in a rare case, i'll also side with hylander on this one, because he does agree with some of the things i've tried to explain and discuss, unlike some people on here who just turn a blind eye to everything and use their "Mary Poppins logic" and ridicule one's reasoning .. especially in Indonesia where being gay is actually ostracized .. and the part about family is so true especially in the Philippines, though there are some exceptions as i do know of an older caucasian guy friend who is married to a younger Filipino man, he is divorced too, but again, this is one of those exceptions .. and he is definitely right in that just because you're in the closet does not always mean you are "close minded, inward-looking, frustrated, or unfulfilled", i am not closed minded (my family however is), in some cases it's not always a choice, if you know your family will disown you and disregard you, sometimes you have to keep things private, sometimes you do need to keep your private life just that, private .. everyone has a right to their own privacy .. but of course, we know that mr. "gun-guns" is just WAY WAY too open and open minded for those things, right? nothing is ever private in his life, i'm sure even all his skeletons are out of the closet walking dead somewhere else

"You cannot even see a joke when it stares you in your face. That photo you refer to was taken by my boyfriend as a joke - sorry, I know that will make you feel jealous because you are in a locked closet of your own making and do not have a boyfriend who likes to take jokes."


for someone who's so humourous and loves to joke so much, your comments seem awfully rash and aggressive at times .. i don't think that sounds "comedic" whatsoever, and honestly, i don't give a fuck really what your personality is (like i really wanna know anyways?), i don't care, sir .. that photo you post of you playing with a child's toy, sitting on one, etc. might give the wrong impression to someone else and might be subject to some misinterpretation to others .. but of course, you'll just ridicule and shitterize my comments to an abundance, because remember sir, you're a bitch :)

@obongbong - You will be relieved. I'll keep this short. You say - " it's not fair and it's not right". And that, sir, is at the root your particular problem. You have a monstrous chip on your shoulder. You expect everyone to be like you and you resent those who actually enjoy their lives as gay men, their freedom to express themselves as gay men, their interaction with other gay men, their views on life as gay men.

You cannot do that. And you totally fail to comprehend that the reason you cannot do that is purely because of hate. Period!

@obongbong - "that photo you post of you playing with a child's toy, sitting on one, etc. might give the wrong impression to someone else and might be subject to some misinterpretation to others .. but of course, you'll just ridicule and shitterize my comments to an abundance, because remember sir, you're a bitch :)

I did not think you would change your tune. Always, yes always, you have to resort to filthy epithets because you know I am right. I do genuinely feel sorry for you. As for your comments about my photograph, that merely shows what a dirty one-track mind you have in your little, walled-in closet. Yes, sorry indeed!